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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
 Posted - 16/02/2016 : 20:52:27
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quote:
I think of a høiskole as a technical school where students board - a Scandinavian innovation in education in the nineteen century.
Names in the Scandinavian education systems throughout the years may not be a theme here. But the name Høyskole today and 150 years ago may definitely be very different.
Tekniske Høyskoler, in Scandinavia up to about 1960, did not offer a broad liberal arts curriculum, but translated into english would be Universities.
Example:
NTH (Norges Tekniske Høyskole) in english Norwegian University of Technology is today NTNU (Norges teknisk-naturvitenskapelige universitet) in english Norwegian University of Technology and Science. |
Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 17/02/2016 10:08:35 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 16/02/2016 : 21:50:48
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| Thanks Einar. |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 16/02/2016 : 22:50:08
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It seems likely that it's Chalmers, or "Chalmers slöjdskola" as it was named in 1875 when Anton Lund Hertzberg was a student in Gothenburg.
Anton must have studied in these buildings, which was raised in 1869.
In 1869 Chalmers moved to new premises in Storgatan 43 ("43 Main Street"), where the inauguration took place October 12th. In 1852, the business had been divided into a lower section, which was engaged in basic education, and a higher, which had more scientific approach. The number of teachers in 1852 was eight, and the principals received at the same time professor's title. An associate professor taught mathematics, mechanics, descriptive geometry and linear drawing, another lecturer in general physics, mechanical technology and architecture and another in chemistry, chemical technology and related laboratory exercises and mineralogy and geognosi. An assistant teacher taught mathematics and second in freehand drawing, modeling and engineering work. The statutes of 1877 described for the first time that the school should consist of a higher and a lower section. In the higher division there would be scientific and technically oriented education in the first year which should be common to all students, and only then divided into three different lines; the mechanical-engineering, the chemical-technical and byggnadsfacket. The number of teachers in 1878 had risen to 13, including 4 senior lecturers and 9 other teachers. Since 1852 had public buildings and learn how houses, civil architecture and Swedish language and accounting emerged as subjects. |
Edited by - jwiborg on 16/02/2016 23:04:35 |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 17/02/2016 : 11:09:02
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Peder Harboe Hertzbergs 2nd wife Henninge Dorthea Dahl came from Tysnes to Kvinherad in 1823, see #1.
The baptismal record of Henningia Dorethea is the 4th from bottom of left page.
Her parents were Henning Friman Dahl and Inger Dorethea Astrup.
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Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 17/02/2016 11:21:54 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
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Fentart
Starting member
Canada
13 Posts |
Posted - 18/02/2016 : 05:52:37
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Dear Everyone,
I blink, and there are 50 responses! I apologize for not checking sooner; I just expected it would take much more time.
I'm delighted. Thank you all very much. I'll post further responses as I go through your material, but for now:
lyndal40 and JaneC,
Very well done with ships' lists; you solved the transcription mistakes. On the SS Angelo, Anton is described as an engineer (that's what 'degree' he received from Goteborg U / "Chalmers slöjdskola" mentioned by jwiborg elsewhere in this post).
quote:
Where does the date of emmigration come from.
It comes from Familien Hertzberg (1932) written by Hertzberg relatives in Norway. I have been working from my copy of the book.
More soon.
Fentart |
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Fentart
Starting member
Canada
13 Posts |
Posted - 19/02/2016 : 06:59:17
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For efficiency’s sake, I’ll do this as one post. But thanks very much to everyone who responded.
Einar: thanks for the baptism and marriage records, and the very interesting notes on Chalmers University of Technology. They help solve my puzzlement about the family saying “Gothenberg University,” which didn’t open until 1891. The Biog. Dict. of Railway Officials that JaneC linked me to also clarified his education (Technical College in Horten and Technical College in Gøteborg).
Thanks also for the 1900 & 1910 census links, and the note about their house at that time.
Einar, if the proposal to turn the Chalmers Crafts School under Rektor Eduard von Schoultz into a technical college “was not adopted” why is it that you think Anton went there, rather than the Technological Institute of Adolf Nordenskiöld? (Anton was a civil engineer.)
Jwiborg: thank you for posting the death notices of Rine and Peder; a little bit of gentle emotion in public. Does “oberstinde” (in the context of a death notice for a widow) mean “widow of a colonel” ? The google translation (“colonel inside”) makes no sense.
Finding Peder and Rine’s graves was one of the goals my upcoming visit to Norway. I will contact the City of Oslo Kulturminnesøk to ask for the actual location in the Krist cemetery ground.
Thanks also for posting the illustration and notes about the Chalmers technical school, which were very interesting.
The portrait drawing of ALH is from Familien Hertzberg (published by the family in 1932), and was probably by his son Charles. Anton was a very good amateur watercolourist; I have a couple of his small paintings.
JaneC: your note about “høiskole” as a technical school agrees with the Railway Officials book description of Anton’s education: “Technical College in Goteborg.” It also says he attended one in Horten, 1870-72 (aged 15-17). And he would have been a boarder in both cases. Anton qualified as a civil engineer and went straight to work for the Norwegian railways until he emigrated to Canada, where he quite quickly became the Divisional Engineer for the Canadian Pacific Ry in Ontario.
Thanks also for the biography of PHH (1777 – 1830) my PHH’s father. It will take me some time to translate it, but the lineage was very interesting and accomplished (the introduction of potatoes to Norwegian farmers, for example).
Two final questions before I follow up on all the information you’ve kindly given me.
(1) In the Hertzberg family’s 1932 history book, the illustrations are only of men; no women’s photos are included. Would there be any sources of photos of ‘upper class’ women in existence for that period--where I might look for one of Rine Hertzberg f Lund? (For example, in Montreal, Quebec, during the 1860s - 90s the society photographer William Notman photographed thousands of individuals and families, including the women. His photo collection is held by the McCord Museum of McGill University.) Would there be a similar collection in Norway where I could search?
(2) Moral / legal question: with regard to (some of) the illustrations and scans posted by some of you, am I permitted to paste them into my family history stories (only for private distribution to family members)? Not all of them are referenced, so I can’t provide attribution. I’d be grateful for any thoughts any of you may have about this.
I am grateful to you. I’ll think of you when I sing ‘Ja, vi elsker dette landet’ in Olso on May 17.
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Fentart
Starting member
Canada
13 Posts |
Posted - 19/02/2016 : 07:04:44
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
#1 Peter's "mini" estate record #228:
Kildeinformasjon: Oslo fylke, Oslo skifterett, Dødsfallsprotokoll A 17 , 1895-1897, oppb: Statsarkivet i Oslo.
Permanent sidelenke: http://arkivverket.no/URN:sk_read/27264/278/
Thank you jkmarler. Are probated wills from that time actually available anywhere? It might be almost impossible for me to read the old writing, but I could photograph and then try. |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 19/02/2016 : 07:36:57
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| Yes. Oberstinde means wife of, or widow after, a Colonel. |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 19/02/2016 : 09:41:48
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quote:
Why is it that you think Anton went there, rather than the Technological Institute of Adolf Nordenskiöld? (Anton was a civil engineer.)
I don't know the Technological Institute of Adolf Nordenskiöld. What I do know is that Chalmers was "en teknisk høyskole" in Gotenburg and it was realistic that Anton got his education as a civil engineer there.
By the way Civil engineer can have two meanings when translated into norwegian.
Sivilingeniør (a title which can only be used by persons with a degree from a university)
Bygningsingeniør (a title used by engineers who practice in the area of buildings and constructions)
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 19/02/2016 : 10:56:34
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Re permission to use images, maybe Jan Peter can explain the sources for the images.
http://www.wikiwand.com/sv/Chalmers_tekniska_h%C3%B6gskola
The illustration of Chalmers's new buildings, as of 1869, seems to have been made by Otto August Mankell. I say "seems to" because I know no Swedish, but I think that's the attribution given, in Swedish, on the link above. Mankell died in 1885. Often an illustration this old would have come out of copyright and into public domain.
I'm also muddy on the above web page; is Wikiwand part of Wikipedia?
I have the impression that images posted on Wikipedia, in general, are available free; it is an all-free content online site.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_Commons
If you attribute the image of the buildings to Mankell, and specify the media where you found it, and use the image in a small, private, work for distribution to family only, I very much doubt that anyone would object. It is impossible to prevent people doing that, yet ethical people want assurance that reproducing an image even in a small way is truly ethical. The Creative Commons license addresses this by making permission explicit (see link).
Not a definitive answer - maybe others can help.
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Edited by - JaneC on 19/02/2016 11:45:31 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 19/02/2016 : 12:19:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Fentart
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
#1 Peter's "mini" estate record #228:
Kildeinformasjon: Oslo fylke, Oslo skifterett, Dødsfallsprotokoll A 17 , 1895-1897, oppb: Statsarkivet i Oslo.
Permanent sidelenke: http://arkivverket.no/URN:sk_read/27264/278/
Thank you jkmarler. Are probated wills from that time actually available anywhere? It might be almost impossible for me to read the old writing, but I could photograph and then try.
This should take you to the list of Oslo probate / estate records. Devils go where angel fear to tread. Good luck.
http://arkivverket.no/URN:sk_read/search/?forvaltning=&fylke=03&embete=&protokoll=&periode=&navn= |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 19/02/2016 : 17:02:54
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Fentart: I don't think you need any permissions to use these illustrations in your private family history stories.
The death notices are from the Norwegian newspaper Aftenposten.
With regards to the 1869-drawing of Chalmers School, you might refer that the drawing was made by Otto August Mankell (1838-1885), as JaneC pointed out.
JaneC: Wikiwand is an advanced wikipedia reader. You'll find the same articles on wikipedia.
Taken from their homepage: "Wikiwand is a modern reader for web and mobile, that optimizes Wikipedia's amazing content for a significantly improved reading experience. Fortunately, all articles on Wikipedia are released under a free license, which allows us to fetch Wikipedia articles and optimize them for maximum readability and enjoyment." |
Edited by - jwiborg on 19/02/2016 17:10:28 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 19/02/2016 : 18:33:13
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| Love the help with Wikiwand. Thanks Jan Peter. |
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Fentart
Starting member
Canada
13 Posts |
Posted - 19/02/2016 : 20:30:36
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quote:
Originally posted by eibache
quote:
Why is it that you think Anton went there, rather than the Technological Institute of Adolf Nordenskiöld? (Anton was a civil engineer.)
I don't know the Technological Institute of Adolf Nordenskiöld. What I do know is that Chalmers was "en teknisk høyskole" in Gotenburg and it was realistic that Anton got his education as a civil engineer there.
By the way Civil engineer can have two meanings when translated into norwegian.
Sivilingeniør (a title which can only be used by persons with a degree from a university)
Bygningsingeniør (a title used by engineers who practice in the area of buildings and constructions)
OK, that's good, Einar. The 1932 family history book I've referred to above says "gjennemgikk Goteborgs høiskole og blev civilenginiør." So I think with the evidence you and others have accumulated, Chalmers is by far the best bet. After 'graduation' in 1876 he went straight to work for the government railway system till 1880, when he "utvandret til Kanada." |
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Hertzberg and Lund families
