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loyane
Junior member
Germany
73 Posts |
 Posted - 24/04/2021 : 13:33:42
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Dear Listers!
The Norway-Heritage site turns out to be just wonderful! So many highly devoted researchers come together to solve huge challenges. And today I would lke to try another one, among the «toughest» I can offer:
Maren Christiansdotter Urness, born in Hafslo, Norway Mar. 20, 1851, illegitimate daughter of Metta Olsdotter Urness (1824- ) and Christian Olson Kinserdal (1825-1889), emigrated with her mother to Wisconsin in 1854. Her two uncles, Nels O. Urness (1826-1862) and Ole O. Urness (1828-1862) were among the victims in the Indian massacre of New Ulm, MN in 1862.
I have never managed to figure out what happened to the mother Metta, but Maren, in America known as Mary Christie, moved, according to the Holden Lutheran church records, in 1863 to Goodhue Co., MN, and she married at Red Wing, MN Dec. 10, 1870 to Peder Gulbrandson from Sagbråten in Nord-Aurdal Co., Valdres, born there Mar. 5, 1845, had emigrated in 1865. Peder took the name of Peter Gilbertson, and the young couple settled on a farm in Oscar township, Otter tail Co., Minn.
However. in the Star Tribune newspaper dated Dec. 12, 1877 we read:
«Peter Gilbertson, of Otter Tail county, was last week convicted of an attempted rape on a girl under ten years old, and sentenced to nine years and ten months in the penitentiary». Prison records which I have received, show he was discharged on Feb. 13, 1886!
The 1880 census shows Peter Gilbertson, a married farmer, aged 35, as a prisoner at Stillwater, MN, while Mary and the children were still on the farm in Oscar township, Otter tail Co., MN - this is near Rothsay, MN, and their children, except for Mary's oldest (illegitimate) daughter, were all christened in the «Hedemarken and Hamar parish» near Rothsay, MN.
The children were:
* Johanna Marie, born Goodhue Co., Minn. Sep. 29, 1869, father: John Andreasson Tornaes of Red Wing, Minn.
* Olina, born Otter tail Co., MN June 2, 1872
* Marie, born Otter tail Co., MN July 8, 1873
* Julie, born Otter tail Co., MN Nov. 2, 1874
* Christian, born Otter tail Co., MN Mar. 12, 1876
In March 1881 the farm was sold by a Sheriff's deed, a mortgage foreclosure sale, and the family is «gone»!
In 1886 Peter Gilbertson returned from prison, and under the name of Peter NELSON «of Yellow Medicine Co., MN» he remarried at Marshall, MN Sep. 23, 1893 to Else «Helen» Jorgenson Skinlo, born in Gloppen Co., Norway Sep. 21, 1859. She emigrated in 1886. Peter subsequently «took back» his Gilbertson name, and the couple llived several places, including in Marietta, MN, in SD, in Elbow Lake, MN ending up in 1914 at Dalton, Otter tail Co., MN where Peter died June 17, 1919. Helen Gilbertson died at Dalton, MN July 25, 1953. Peter and Helen had several children, including a son Julius, whose WW1 draft card has an interesting note saying his father was «insane»: https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/6482/images/005253066_04393?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&usePUBJs=true&_ga=2.264389007.1621079734.1618435785-390650824.1612707015&pId=29841650
I have been in contact with descendants of this 2nd family of Peter's, but noone living today ever heard about Peter being married before and having children!! Obviously a very well kept secret!
BUT, the case doesn't end there. Something of the very first that Peter Gilbertson did as he came out of prison, was to sue Mary for having betrayed him. The case filed in Otter tail Co., MN is dated Nov. 19, 1877:
«Peter Gilbertson, Plaintiff vs Mary Gilbertson, Defendant
The above named plaintiff complains and says, that his name is Peter Gilbertson and that his age is forty two years
2nd That the defendants name is Mary Gilbertson and her age is 36 years
3rd That the plaintiff and defendant intermarried at Red Wing in the State of Minn. in the year 1871, and that the plaintiff then became and now is the husband of the defendant
4th That the plaintiff and defendant moved to Otter Tail County, Minn in the year 1871 or 2 and that they have continued to reside in said State ever since except as to the defendant who has been absent in Dakota Territory for the last six years
5th That the said defendant did in the year 1881 at Fargo in the Territory of Dakota Mary(!) one Severt Knutson, and that she did continue to cohabit with said Knudson for a long time thereafter as husband and wife
6th That the said defendant Mary Gilbertson has for the last three or four years commited abultry(!) with divers men and has kept and been an inmate in several houses of prostitution in Fargo, Hilsboro and Portland all in the Terrirory of Dakota, without the knowledge or procurement of the plaintiff Peter Gilbertson
7th That the said defendant Mary Gilbertson did desert and abandone the plaintiff Peter Gilbertson six years ago and that she has not lived with him since. Wherefore the plaintiff demands that the marriage x tbonds of matrimony now existing between the plaintiff and defendant may be desolved and that he have Judgment of absolute divorce, from the defendant»
To what extent we can believe a man who came out after almost 10 years in prison, may be a good question, but he was represented by a lawyer! We also do know that Mary several times was called to court to witness, but she apparently NEVER showed up!
My personal theory is the following: Mary may well have taken off to ND, but her children may have been raised in some orphanage and adopted?
You can tell from this documentation that I have spent considerable time researching the destiny of Mary and of her children, and if anyone can solve this «mystery» finding Mary and her children, I am willing to offer that person a copy of volume #12 of the Luster County History Book Series to appear later this year!
Thanks a million in advance!
Very sincerely yours, |
Lars E. Oyane |
Edited by - loyane on 28/04/2021 18:52:25 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 24/04/2021 : 15:01:59
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Weird with a beard....
I hate to say it but there were a number of very young girls in the Peter Gilbertson household--since grooming and victimization usually starts at home-- perhaps his own child or children were victim(s)of his abuse?
There were a number of regional orphanages in the Fergus Falls area, Norman county? Lake Park ?. Usually, legal adoptions are housed in probate division records. But farming out to other relatives and neighbors can happen without any legal formalities.
The early adoption records of Cass county, North Dakota have been indexed and the index is searchable online but the actual file will take a court order. A search for Gilbertson there didn't turn up any. |
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loyane
Junior member
Germany
73 Posts |
Posted - 24/04/2021 : 21:59:11
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Dear Jackie and other Listers!
Thank you very much for your latest comments.
I have been thinking, a very likely «victim» of Peter's abuse would be against his stepdaughter Johanna Marie, but I haven't seen the actual court papers from 1877, so I don't know!
Hwever, it sounds as if Mary left MN for North Dakota in 1881, and she apparently never returned, at least not before 1887. Can she have moved on somewhere else?
I have also been «hunting» for that Severt Knutson with whom Mary supposedy had «shelter», but that has also so far given no results.
BUT, that name isn't too common, and I have run accross a «strange bird» my the name in Goodhue Co., MN:
Kari «Carrie» Christophersdotter Fladhammer, born in Luster Co., Norway Nov. 23, 1865, emigrated in 1883 and was married in Goodhue Co., MN on Oct. 25, 1887 to one Sivert M. KNUDSON. However, nothing has been found on him at all, and on Oct. 4, 1891 Carrie, then named Carrie KNUDSON, remarried John O. FLADLAND of Kenyon, MN, a grave monument merchant (1859-1929). Carried died in Kenyon, MN May 25, 1940. She had no children!
Could it have been the same Severt??
Thanks again for your great assistance in this matter!
Very sincerely yours, |
Lars E. Oyane |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
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loyane
Junior member
Germany
73 Posts |
Posted - 25/04/2021 : 19:25:13
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Dear Jackie and other Listers!
Thank you very nuch for your latest message in regard to the Sever Knutsons.
Several years ago I studied the «local» Severt Knutsons and found several in Goodhue Co., MN, but they have all been counted for, except the one who married Carrie Fladhammer. I then masde a list av possible alternatives:
1880 census:
* Sever Knutson (1855), Udolpho township, Mower Co., MN: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GYB5-QY
* Sever Knudtson (1848), Clayton township, Mower Co., MN: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9YB5-Q7
* Sever Knudson (1857), Sioux City, Woodbury Co., IA: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GYB8-9XPC
* Severt Knutson (1857), Albert Lea, Freeborn Co., MN: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GYBF-3BM
* Sivert Knutson (1855), Kerkhoven, Swift Co., MN: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9YB8-T92
1885 census, the same as the ones you mention:
* Syvert Knutson (1840), Hamden township, Becker Co., MN: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-D189-MCR
* Syver Knutson (1857), Richmond township, Becker Co., MN: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-D185-FY
I would expect «our» Sivert Knutson to be among these, but I cannot prove any of them...
If we were to believe the court documents from 1887, Sever and Mary should be in ND in 1885, but there I am unable to see any of them, unless they went by a different name?
Thanks again for your great assistance in this mater!
Very sincerely yours, |
Lars E. Oyane |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 25/04/2021 : 19:38:06
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| There are two ways to search the 1885 Dakota Territorial census online. Ancestry has an indexed & searchable version which connects to the image and NDSU Archives has a text based index which is not the same index by Ancestry. |
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loyane
Junior member
Germany
73 Posts |
Posted - 26/04/2021 : 16:49:02
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Dear Jackie and other Listers!
Thanks a million for new interesting comments regarding the 1885 census. I am aware of the two ways of searching.
If we could only find the 1895 and 1905 censuses for North Dakota... And the 1885 census for South Dakota wouldn't be bad either...
Now as far as Severt Knudson is concerned, a very interesting note has been found in the Star Tribune from July 3, 1888: https://www.newspapers.com/image/180764774/?terms=severt&match=1
«Severt Knudson and Nils P. Fjeset were examined for insanity before Judge Von Schlegel yesterday and were committed to Rochester asylum»
This Severt Knudson could be either one of the Severts we are looking for, or maybe both?
But how do we get out more information from Rochester? Any suggestions?
Thanks again for your great assistance!
Very sincerely yours, |
Lars E. Oyane |
Edited by - loyane on 26/04/2021 16:51:26 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 26/04/2021 : 17:29:36
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In days gone by, you used to be able to request committed people's files from the hospital in Minnesota. I got great stuff for two individuals I had who were residents. But post HIPPA regulations not sure how easy it would be.
Some counties did keep files within the probate division of committals. For instance, I got a lot of material on Sivert Gunderson from Steele county about his various committals browsing through the probate records on microfilm.
So there are ways.
Regards houses of prostitution in the Red River Valley, yes there were numerous, especially in the bigger cities. Fargo's red light district was downtown where the public library and civic buildings are located now. The madams were rounded up once a month or so and fined $50 bucks. The money went into "education" funding! So school kids from the era benefited!
So could Mary have ended up in one, sure, depending on how desperate her situation was. Maybe she went by a different name like her middle name? |
Edited by - jkmarler on 26/04/2021 17:36:04 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 26/04/2021 : 19:09:26
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This Olina has the same birthdate as target Olina but has been assigned surname Rohn:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/84383856/oliana-stene
Johanne Marie's faddernes are Jens Chr. Klevgaard, Elling Nilsen, Gjorund Haldorsd, Siri Gulbrandsd
Julie' faddernes are Ole K Braget, Sunne Braget; Ole Forster (Torster?) and Kari O Torster (Forster?)
Christians faddernes are Sissel Mikkelsdtr, Mikkel S Rostrand, Ole K Mo; Kari O Braget
Oline's faddernes are: Johannes Spidalen, Gulbrand Hosbjor, Andrea Pedersdtr, Agnete Andersdtr
Marie's faddernes are: Ole K Braget, Amund O Braget, Sunne Knudsdtr Braget, Kari O Brafet
Peder and Maren with the farm name Sagbraaten attached served as faddernes to Gudbrand Adolf s/o Gard (?) and Ane Gudbrandtr Sagbraaten on 31 Aug 1873
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Edited by - jkmarler on 27/04/2021 10:18:19 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9224 Posts |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 28/04/2021 : 11:37:01
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Here is a possible for Maren:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MPRR-N8H
One thing that's a little bit odd is about the children. In ordinary divorces, custody and care of children of a marriage is a major feature, why not in this one? |
Edited by - jkmarler on 28/04/2021 11:44:17 |
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loyane
Junior member
Germany
73 Posts |
Posted - 28/04/2021 : 18:16:52
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Dear Jackie, Anton and other Listers!
Thank you very much for several interesting messages regarding this challenging family!
Getting access to State Hospital records varies from state to state. In Wisconsin I know it's very hard, and Illinois seems about the same way. However, in Iowa it seems to be easier as well as in North and South Dakota and Oregon... Now it appears the Rochester, MN records are stored at the MSHS, and they should be possible to view, if one only can get in there... (and not having to cross the Ocean...)
By the way, there is no Sivert Knudson in Rochester, MN neither in 1895 nor in 1900, so either he died or he was released....
It has also occurred to me that Mary may have used a different name if she was indeed a prostitute, and her age may also have been changed. I wasn't aware that her «trade» was so «popular» in the Red River Valley..
The Mrs. Mary Gilbertson who shows up in Winona, MN as a dressmaker in 1895, sounds very interesting. There was a Mary Gilbertson who died in Winona, MN May 29, 1903, 40 years old, but the funeral card says she was unmarried..., so that's probably someone else...
Another strange fact is the question about the children. Why are they not mentioned in the divorce case? Could it be that they were no longer part of the family and had been adopted away? Or could it be they had been victims of some epidemic? I know of cases where entire families were «eliminated» due to typhoid fever, diphteria or something similar, some of these episodes happened around 1881/1882 in the Red River Valley... One family in particular lost all of their eight children within a few days in the spring of 1881, and yet the parents got five more children after that!
Where do we head next?
Thanks again for your wonderful assistance in this matter!
Very sincereoly yours, |
Lars E. Oyane |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 28/04/2021 : 19:17:18
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| Peter had siblings in US (the baptismal in 1873). Its most usual for the in-laws to know everything dirty little thing about the spouse being divorced. But since the children were of the blood, so to speak, maybe they've kept track of them? |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 29/04/2021 : 21:37:38
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From 1885 Cass county Dakota Territorial census all women born Norway in 1851:
Eli Chrestianson 1885 abt 1851 White Female Warren, Cass
1885 abt 1851 White Female Berlin, Cass
Berit Solberg 1885 abt 1851 White Female Pleasant, Cass
Bessie PeterSon 1885 abt 1851 White Female Fargo, Cass
Bertha Olerud 1885 abt 1851 White Female Pleasant, Cass
Rachel Olson 1885 abt 1851 Warren, Cass
Karen Langseth 1885 abt 1851 White Female Stanley, Cass
Anne Larson 1885 abt 1851 White Female Berlin, Cass
Tilda Kjas 1885 abt 1851 White Female Warren, Cass
Gena JohnSon 1885 abt 1851 White Female Fargo, Cass
Corrie Johnson 1885 abt 1851 White Female Fargo, Cass
Sarah Kantera 1885 abt 1851 White Female Berlin, Cass
Hannah Errickson 1885 abt 1851 Warren, Cass
Fure Erekson 1885 abt 1851 White Female Pleasant, Cass
Betsaz Eggum 1885 abt 1851 White Female Fargo, Cass
Hazel Anderson 1885 abt 1851 White Female Pleasant, Cass
Rachel Anderson 1885 abt 1851 Female Warren, Cass
Same as before only born about 1850:
Emma Bye 1885 abt 1850 White Female Pleasant, Cass
Lena Broton 1885 abt 1850 White Female Warren, Cass
Ellen 1885 abt 1850 White Female Fargo, Cass
Mary Wordley 1885 abt 1850 White Female Gardner, Cass
Karen Threhus 1885 abt 1850 White Female Norman, Cass
Maria Berke 1885 abt 1850 White Female Fargo, Cass
Clara Soreson 1885 abt 1850 White Female Fargo, Cass
Engre Selstead 1885 abt 1850 White Female Reed, Cass
View Record Caire Scott 1885 abt 1850 White Female Fargo, Cass
Olive Qualley 1885 abt 1850 White Female Warren, Cass
Karen Perhus 1885 abt 1850 White Female Norman, Cass
Mary Peterson 1885 abt 1850 Female Warren, Cass
Justa Oleson 1885 abt 1850 White Female Gardner, Cass
Casie Olson 1885 abt 1850 White Female Warren, Cass
Bertha Nygard 1885 abt 1850 Warren, Cass
Margrete Mylestad 1885 abt 1850 White Female Norman, Cass
Johana Nessi 1885 abt 1850 White Female Stanley, Cass
Rosie Moe 1885 abt 1850 White Female Fargo, Cass
Carrie Lobben 1885 abt 1850 White Female Fargo, Cass
Aese Liendahl 1885 abt 1850 Female Warren, Cass
Mary Krestad 1885 abt 1850 White Female Fargo, Cass
Wm Keller 1885 abt 1850 White Female Berlin, Cass
Kristi Jubronson 1885 abt 1850 White Female Norman, Cass
Ingleberg Gabrielson 1885 abt 1850 White Female Fargo, Cass
Pricila Eserst 1885 abt 1850 White Female Reed, Cass
Ella Anderson 1885 abt 1850 Female Warren, Cass
Anna Anderson 1885 abt 1850 White Female Fargo, Cass
Same only born about 1852
Olia Christianson 1885 abt 1852 White Female Pleasant, Cass
Elmira Brox 1885 abt 1852 White Female Ayr, Cass
Elizabeth Waa 1885 abt 1852 White Female Reed, Cass
Jorge Thozen 1885 abt 1852 White Female Berlin, Cass
Lina Bergen 1885 abt 1852 White Female Fargo, Cass
Martha Steneger 1885 abt 1852 White Female Kindred, Cass
Antoinette Simmons 1885 abt 1852 Warren, Cass
Paulina Shultz 1885 abt 1852 White Female Fargo, Cass
View Record Carren Oliver 1885 abt 1852 White Female Fargo, Cass
Jena OleSon 1885 abt 1852 White Female Fargo, Cass
Ingre Nelson 1885 abt 1852 White Female Norman, Cass
Mary Nelson 1885 abt 1852 White Female Stanley, Cass
Randi Benson 1885 abt 1852 White Female Norman, Cass
Martha Mortensen 1885 abt 1852 White Female Berlin, Cass
Anne Mickelson 1885 abt 1852 White Female Fargo, Cass
Olene Johnson 1885 abt 1852 White Female Warren, Cass
Elen Jid 1885 abt 1852 White Female Norman, Cass
Jennie Holmen 1885 abt 1852 White Female Stanley, Cass
Lena Bakk 1885 abt 1852 White Female Fargo, Cass
Helline Hendrekson 1885 abt 1852 White Female Warren, Cass
Julia S Halston 1885 abt 1852 White Female Raymond, Cass
Kari Halvorson 1885 abt 1852 White Female Pleasant, Cass
V. Essby 1885 abt 1852 White Female Fargo, Cass
Mary Duram 1885 abt 1852 White Female Fargo, Cass
E?? 1885 abt 1852 White Female Fargo, Cass
Elizabeth Anderson 1885 abt 1852 White Female Berlin, Cass
Brita Amundson 1885 abt 1852 White Female Pleasant, Cass
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Edited by - jkmarler on 29/04/2021 22:11:25 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 30/04/2021 : 00:05:52
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| A search for each of the children in the 1885 Dakota Territory census using their given name (no surname)and year of birth and Minnesota as place of birth found none which corresponded. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 30/04/2021 00:20:02 |
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Mary Urness Gilbertson (1851) - Otter tail Co., MN
