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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
 Posted - 14/01/2023 : 07:58:23
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2nd marriage for a Simon Arvesen in Halden in 1823 #20:
Halden prestekontor Kirkebøker, SAO/A-10909/F/Fa/L0003: Ministerialbok nr. I 3, 1815-1834, s. 406-407
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061011040178
#5 birth baptism of Simon's daughter Karen Andrine Simonsdatter
Halden prestekontor Kirkebøker, SAO/A-10909/G/Ga/L0002: Klokkerbok nr. 2, 1821-1834, s. 106-107
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061010050539
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Edited by - jkmarler on 14/01/2023 08:01:15 |
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PCwray1990
Starting member
United Kingdom
18 Posts |
Posted - 14/01/2023 : 10:15:31
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Ah this is amazing, thank you - I had not been able to find the death of Hans Arvesen and to date had only found one additional daughter for Peder and Christine - so Gunhilde is new to me.
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PCwray1990
Starting member
United Kingdom
18 Posts |
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PCwray1990
Starting member
United Kingdom
18 Posts |
Posted - 14/01/2023 : 12:02:58
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Do you think this could be a marriage record for the Gunild you found as a child of Peder and Christine - i did a search for born 1817 marriages and this came up - no references to parents that i can make out though.
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/327/pv00000008964221
A search of the same farm - Soegaard in the archive with Olsen and Ole returned the below marriage in 1820 - i wonder if this Ole Olsen could be a sibling of the Christine Olsdatter in my tree.
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/327/pv00000002367811
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Edited by - PCwray1990 on 14/01/2023 12:20:27 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 14/01/2023 : 13:43:20
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quote:
Originally posted by PCwray1990
Do you think this could be a marriage record for the Gunild you found as a child of Peder and Christine - i did a search for born 1817 marriages and this came up - no references to parents that i can make out though.
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/327/pv00000008964221
A search of the same farm - Soegaard in the archive with Olsen and Ole returned the below marriage in 1820 - i wonder if this Ole Olsen could be a sibling of the Christine Olsdatter in my tree.
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/327/pv00000002367811
The paragraph on the following page tells the names of the fathers of the contracting couple. Her father is named Peter Hansen and the date is the very last thing in the paragraph. This is the "other" Gunille Marie whose confirmation I x'd out above.
Ole is the single most common first name in historical Norway. And because of that the single most common patronymic. But keep the information because there could be a connection. Sometimes invisible threads unite us. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
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PCwray1990
Starting member
United Kingdom
18 Posts |
Posted - 14/01/2023 : 14:01:37
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Thank you - noted on the "other Gunille Marie" i will disregard that search - The norwegian handwriting is difficult for me to make out on some of the records so appreciate the help.,
Matros seems to be recurring - Hans Arvesen was also Matros and Soldat on certain records. But living in Halden, i suppose the sea would have been a source of primary occupation for many locals. In the family history book there were many stores of ancestors having drowned on fishing trips or frozen lakes. In one instance 4 children died falling into a pond in one day while their parents were out. Very sad. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 14/01/2023 : 14:21:06
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Christine Ingemorsdatter is relatively easier to follow than Ole Olsen. Here is her death in 1849, fifth down from top on right page:
Aremark prestekontor Kirkebøker, SAO/A-10899/F/Fc/L0002: Ministerialbok nr. III 2, 1834-1849, s. 196
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060604030468
By tracking their children's birthplaces will give you information about farms they lived on and might give you a clue to figure out which Ole Olsen is which.
Not mentioning, of course, since I forgot it the faddere (godparents or witnesses) in each of the baptismal records tend to be relatives, friends and neighbors, worth recording in "tight" information situations. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 14/01/2023 15:03:50 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 14/01/2023 : 14:59:49
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quote:
Originally posted by PCwray1990
Thank you - noted on the "other Gunille Marie" i will disregard that search - The norwegian handwriting is difficult for me to make out on some of the records so appreciate the help.,
Matros seems to be recurring - Hans Arvesen was also Matros and Soldat on certain records. But living in Halden, i suppose the sea would have been a source of primary occupation for many locals. In the family history book there were many stores of ancestors having drowned on fishing trips or frozen lakes. In one instance 4 children died falling into a pond in one day while their parents were out. Very sad.
Searching the sailor's records is a long slog but here is a link to those online from Ostfold:
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/db/browse?page=1&counties%5B0%5D=01&start_year=&end_year=&text=m%C3%B8nstringskontor
And on NorwayHeritage is this page explaining:
http://www.norwayheritage.com/articles/templates/genealogy.asp?articleid=4&zoneid=2
And here is a search engine for some sailor's records mostly centered on the Agder region in Norway but there are a few from eastern Norway waters as well:
https://www.sjohistorie.no/en |
Edited by - jkmarler on 14/01/2023 15:10:33 |
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PCwray1990
Starting member
United Kingdom
18 Posts |
Posted - 14/01/2023 : 18:57:21
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Thank you for these links - i will check them out and see if i can find any reference to the sailors!
I wonder if while I have you, it would be ok to run something else past you quickly - same family line.
Arve Nielsens wife was Anne Simonsdr Grinder. Her mother was Sigri Arvesdatter born to Arve Andersen and Mari Michelsdr.
I think they had a second daughter - Mette Arvesdatter born 1742.
I found two marriages for Mette Arvesdatter - both to men named Thor but 11 years apart. Thor Qvisler was the first and the records show witnesses of Anders and Simon Grinder which makes me pretty confident this is her. Oddly, the second marriage is to Thor Syversen and the witness this time is NIels Slorer - this is the name of the farm that the Arvesen brothers father (Arve Nielsen) was from, and his father was Niels Slorer. This makes me think there is a connection between the families at some point just need to dig it out and find it.
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/327/pv00000010093778 - Mette Thor Qvisler (jensen) Marriage with Grinder Witnesses
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/255/pd00000042712483 - A son Jens born to Thor and Mette
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/327/pv00000010094302 - Mette second marriage to Thor Syversen (shows her living at Qvisler)
Similarly there appears to be a strong link to the Rod farm - as when Simon Trondsen is born - https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/255/pd00000015206431
The birth entry records Pernille Nielsdatter as the witness. She is from Rod. When i researched her - her own marriage was to Torbjorn Nilsen Slorer - https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/327/pv00000002168562
Im struggling to piece it all together but i am sure there is a link somewhere.
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 15/01/2023 : 01:02:48
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Back to Peder Pederson / Iver Pederson see #9 left page their baptism:
Aremark prestekontor Kirkebøker, SAO/A-10899/F/Fb/L0002: Ministerialbok nr. II 2, 1745-1795, s. 128
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061018030317
Pernille Gulbrandsdatter baptism 4th from top right page:
Aremark prestekontor Kirkebøker, SAO/A-10899/F/Fb/L0002: Ministerialbok nr. II 2, 1745-1795, s. 52
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061018030238
Pernille's parents were "censured" actually publicly absolved for their indiscretion in having Pernille. Her father's full name is given here and repetition of his marital status of "giftmand" married man, and not to Pernille's mother. 3rd entry from the top of the right page
Aremark prestekontor Kirkebøker, SAO/A-10899/F/Fb/L0002: Ministerialbok nr. II 2, 1745-1795, s. 361
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061018030403
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Edited by - jkmarler on 15/01/2023 01:22:20 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 15/01/2023 : 01:16:29
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quote:
Originally posted by PCwray1990
Thank you for these links - i will check them out and see if i can find any reference to the sailors!
I wonder if while I have you, it would be ok to run something else past you quickly - same family line.
Arve Nielsens wife was Anne Simonsdr Grinder. Her mother was Sigri Arvesdatter born to Arve Andersen and Mari Michelsdr.
I think they had a second daughter - Mette Arvesdatter born 1742.
I found two marriages for Mette Arvesdatter - both to men named Thor but 11 years apart. Thor Qvisler was the first and the records show witnesses of Anders and Simon Grinder which makes me pretty confident this is her. Oddly, the second marriage is to Thor Syversen and the witness this time is NIels Slorer - this is the name of the farm that the Arvesen brothers father (Arve Nielsen) was from, and his father was Niels Slorer. This makes me think there is a connection between the families at some point just need to dig it out and find it.
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/327/pv00000010093778 - Mette Thor Qvisler (jensen) Marriage with Grinder Witnesses
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/255/pd00000042712483 - A son Jens born to Thor and Mette
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/327/pv00000010094302 - Mette second marriage to Thor Syversen (shows her living at Qvisler)
Similarly there appears to be a strong link to the Rod farm - as when Simon Trondsen is born - https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/255/pd00000015206431
The birth entry records Pernille Nielsdatter as the witness. She is from Rod. When i researched her - her own marriage was to Torbjorn Nilsen Slorer - https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/327/pv00000002168562
Im struggling to piece it all together but i am sure there is a link somewhere.
At her second marriage Mette is styled as "enke" which means widow, so it looks right to me. On some of those indexed listings right under larger, heavier font title at the top it says "see scanned version" and if you click on those words it will take you to the original you can see and read the original inscription. It is always best to see the original record, not so much on these older marriages because they have less detail but definitely on the baptisms to find any possible friend or family serving as faddere witnesses or godparents. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 15/01/2023 : 15:10:42
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Aslakstrom was the farm that Gunille the first child of Peder and Christine was born on and where the three were living.
There was an Ole Olsen on Aslakstrom in 1816 he paid the "silver tax" in that year.
Here is a book at the Norwegian National Library that appears to have some information about people on the farm:
https://www.nb.no/items/fb5368b10cf776bd9f645e1361a2ad5c?page=0&searchText=%22peder%20ingemarsen%22
But this book is only available to Norwegian IP addresses. Would one of the Norwegians here be able to look? |
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PCwray1990
Starting member
United Kingdom
18 Posts |
Posted - 15/01/2023 : 18:30:09
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| I have a norwegian VPN - so should be able to check it out - thank you for finding this for me - and for the other details around Peder and Iver. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 16/01/2023 : 13:27:21
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O how useful!
One problem with the patronymic and the first name that leads to your brickwall situation, is that sometimes it is indexed as "Arne" rather than "Arve". The index for this one is Arnesen but the writing is clearly Arvesen.
Death of Simon Arvesen #87
Halden prestekontor Kirkebøker, SAO/A-10909/F/Fa/L0005: Ministerialbok nr. I 5, 1834-1845, s. 419
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061011050147
Here is another possible of the siblings: a 28 year old Niels Arvesen indexed as Arnesen #33:
Halden prestekontor Kirkebøker, SAO/A-10909/F/Fa/L0003: Ministerialbok nr. I 3, 1815-1834, s. 200-201
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061011040080
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Edited by - jkmarler on 16/01/2023 13:34:19 |
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Antoinette Hansen Heritage
