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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
 Posted - 08/06/2011 : 09:46:20
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Most likely her, changed lastname from Necolaidatter to her fathers lastname Johnsen/Johannesen.
Josefine bap. Joseph. Maksimilian Necolalidatter born March 3. 1868 to farmer Necolay Johnsen and Marith Hansdatter Norøen, Øksnes, see http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=16735&idx_id=16735&uid=ny&idx_side=-7#4[/url]
Wrong person, sorry, It was a boy, Joseph Maksimilian Nicolaisen
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 08/06/2011 11:20:54 |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2011 : 21:13:18
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Here is Josefine Maximiliane Johansdatter in Sortland in census-1900, married to Peter Johannesen, b. 1843.
The farm history book "Gård og slekt i Øksnes", Volume 4 had more about Josefine Maximiliane.
It says she was born in Tromsø ab. 1868, by parents Johan Pedersen & Marta Hansdtr. It also says Oscar was placed (in care) at Fredrik & Helmine Lund, because both (his) parents moved out of Øksnes.
An interesting fact, Josefine's daughter Asta also became a foster daughter, at the same place where Oscar lived!
Census-1910 shows her with Fredrik & Helmine Lund.
Oscar is not there. He could have left for the US by then.
Josefine Maximiliane in census-1875.
Her parents are Johan Peder Pedersen & Marta Magdalene Hansdr on Hukø farm in Tromsøysund, Troms.
Jan Peter |
Edited by - jwiborg on 08/06/2011 21:31:26 |
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Charles Hansen
Starting member
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2011 : 21:45:38
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Jan Peter -
Oscar did arrive in the U.S. on June 19, 1910, and I have requested his Petition for Naturalization document from our government, which should include the Certificate of Arrival, giving the name of the ship.
However, I think he may have already been a seaman in the 1907-1910 period, so he may have been a crew member when he came her (and possibly left the ship without authorization, as he liked to suggest). My father has postcards to Oscar (date unknown) from other seamen, apparently delivered/collected at a well-known Norwegian sailors hostel in Brooklyn, NYC.
I am approaching this project from many directions at once, and it begins to feel overwhelming at times, particularly since you folks in Norway have been so speedy and generous with information that my family has never seen before.
A major mystery for me is when and why he changed his name (probably not officially) and assumed this royal heritage - I have asked my father if he knows anything of this. One of Oscar's daughters is also still alive, so I will try to contact her.
One thing that puzzles me a little on the Norway end is this from yesterday:
> Oskar is listed together with Fredrik Joakim Lund and his wife Helmina Maria Kristina Mikkelsdatter. [eibache shows Matiasdatter]
The book say that they didn't have any own children, and that they had a fosterson Oskar Johan Waldemar Hanssen b.1892, who as an adult emigrated to the US and became a famous sculptor. It doesn't mention his parents, only that he was born out of wedlock in "Nyksund" in 1892."
I'm wondering where the "Nyksund" came from? I know it is in the Lofoten Islands and largely deserted now, but it looks to be some ways from Oksnes. Are there any references for him in Nyksund? Since it was out of wedlock, would the mother travel from her home for the later pregnancy and actual birth, or were such situations socially accepted, as there seem to have been a lot of them? The baptism/Christening wasn't until over 4 months later in Langenes - was such a delay normal in that time?
Charles
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2011 : 21:49:14
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Nyksund is a farm in Øksnes, not far from the Klo farm where Oskar grew up. I guess Josefine Maximiliane must have lived there as a servant or something, in 1892 when Oskar was born. It was common to give birth at home.
The book say it was not very common with illegitimate children in that area at that time, but it mention Oskar and a few (2-3) other children born out of wedlock.
3-4 months delay between birth and christening was very normal.
Jan Peter |
Edited by - jwiborg on 08/06/2011 22:20:04 |
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Charles Hansen
Starting member
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2011 : 23:06:01
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Thanks for adding the map Jan Peter.
Are Øksnes and Myre the same place? Perhaps one a "town" name and the other a "district"? When I used MapQuest to show Myre, it told me there were two in Norway, and I selected: Myre - Øksnes vs. Myre - Andøy, but when the map comes up I only see Øksnes. But it does show the two "farms" being at opposite sides and about equal distances from Øksnes. Nyksund would be the more difficult place to live, with the wind off the Atlantic. |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2011 : 00:10:50
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Yes, Myre is the township, and also the Administration centre of Øksnes municipality.
Nyksund is a windy fishing village.
Jan Peter |
Edited by - jwiborg on 09/06/2011 00:13:10 |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2011 : 00:11:50
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In Jan Peters 1875 census for Josefine Maximiliane above the family lived in Tromsøysund on farm Hukø, todays Håkøya (Hawk island), an island in the strait, sorry for the "green" map, see here
A long way down page, see "Folketellinga 1865" 1865 cencus, farm nr 220a the parenst and two sons Vilhelm 4 and Albert 2 and a daughter Hanne age 10 are mentioend.
A bit further down in the 1900 census, total 5 Haakø farms on the island, farm 68-5 Haakø, is owned by a son, Johan Martin Johansen b. 1874, unmarried, the father widower Johan Peder Pedersen lived there and a 2. son Hans Peder Johansen 1870 married to Petra Karoline Jeremiasdatter 1874 and a daughter Margot Johanne 1896 and two sons, Hans 1898 and Jeremias 1899.
Josefine Maximiliane´s two brothers Johan Martin 1874 and Hans Peder 1870 are both in the 1875 census for Hukø
I suppose all the men in this family were farmers and fishermen.
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 09/06/2011 00:44:59 |
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Charles Hansen
Starting member
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2011 : 01:07:00
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Thanks Kåre, but I'm not really interested in the complete genealogy in all directions, but more on information about my grandfather's life in Norway, which up until now was unknown to my family - except for Oskar, and apparently he didn't share.
Two specific things I'm interested in at this point - and I realize the information might be harder to locate. Is there any history of early art training/experience, and any data on when he left Norway. My father thinks he was a sailor ~1907-1910, probably starting as a cabin boy or apprentice-type seaman.
I will try to learn what is on the postcards my father has from other Norwegian seamen and see if there are details of ships/dates. When I get my documents from the U.S. government, I should know the name of the ship he landed here on. However, naturalization papers indicate that he entered in Wilmington, North Carolina, which was an uncommon port for cross-Atlantic immigrant sailings. This is because of the dangerous reefs approaching the harbor, and apparently Scotsmen (and their fearless captains) were the only exceptions. Pople from other embarcation points would go to a major port, such as NYC, and then take smaller coastal ships to Wilmington, but I don't know of any reason Oskar would want to go there, so I think it is possible that he was on a crew and "jumped ship", but I need to research that.
Sooo . . . if there was a Norwegian-flag merchant ship that lost a crew member about June 19, 1910 at Wilmington, N.C.
takk, Charles |
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Charles Hansen
Starting member
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2011 : 02:47:24
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Josefine Maximiliane Johannesen
I have been looking deeper into some of the earlier posts, and discovered I have some questions about her – or, perhaps the social culture of the time and region.
Jan Peter said she was shown as married to Peter Johannesen on the 1900 census, but in 1910 her daughter Asta is a fosterdatter with the same couple that Oskar had lived with earlier. I wondered how this might have happened.
I look at the 1900 census page for Peter Johannesen and see that he has four children listed. There are 2 sons, born when he was 33 and 44, and two daughters, born when he was 56 and 57. The apparent situation is that he had the sons by his first wife, who had died, and then he married Josefine, who bore him two daughters.
There is a column on the census form with a heading “Trussamf.” that I can’t find a translation for (likely because it is an abbreviation), with the words “Intet Samfund” next to Josefine, while everyone else just has an “S”. An automated translation gives “nothing society”. Is this a comment on her morality for having a child out of wedlock earlier in her life, or something else entirely?
What are the possible situations? Peter Johannesen died, his elder son inherited the farm, and evicted Josefine and her daughters - perhaps along with his younger brother? Peter Johannesen was still running the farm, but didn’t have the income to support Asta? Perhaps her sister Bergliot was a fosterdatter elsewhere. Or, maybe Peter decided he didn’t have the energy to deal with two young daughters in his later years – maybe he wore himself out creating them. Lastly, perhaps Josefine herself had died and whoever was running the farm didn’t feel allegiance to her daughters.
I am not looking for anyone to try to find the factual events, but I am curious about the “Intet Samfund”. Searches indicate that at this time local municipalities were responsible for placing foster children, but I wonder if there was any system for the mothers? It seems likely that Josefine led a sad and probably very difficult life.
Charles
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2011 : 07:52:59
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Hi,
the "Trussamf" (trossamfunn) column is used to identify the persons religious community. The main community in Norway was (and is) the Lutheran church. I believe the "S" mean the State church.
"Intet Samfund" means she has left the State church, and not joined a new religious community. She maybe didn't believe in God.
I guess this is a voluntary withdrawal, ie. she has not been evicted due to illegitimate children.
I agree, Karl & Koldevin Pettersen must be sons of Peter Johannesen from a marriage before he met Josefine.
I guess he met Josefine after Oskar was born, ie. mid 1890's.
Why Asta is at foster care in 1910 is hard to tell. Maybe the churchbooks can tell?
You should check if you can find Josefine and/or Peter dead...
I don't think the new owner evicted Josefine and her daughters from the farm. Normally people in those days had secured the rights to live there all the life, even after the farm had been handed over to the new generation.
Jan Peter |
Edited by - jwiborg on 09/06/2011 08:06:24 |
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SusanArnold
Junior member
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2011 : 22:42:36
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"Intet Samfund" means she has left the State church, and not joined a new religious community. She maybe didn't believe in God?"
my 2 cents:
not belonging to a religious community doesn't mean one doesn't believe in God... perhaps just not traditional rigid "organized religion"!  |
Sue Hardin |
Edited by - SusanArnold on 09/06/2011 22:45:23 |
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Charles Hansen
Starting member
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2011 : 01:30:42
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| Or she was a retro-pagan and believed in many gods. |
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SusanArnold
Junior member
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2011 : 04:58:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Hansen
Or she was a retro-pagan and believed in many gods.
not what I meant... God isn't in a church! but glad you have a sense of humor!  |
Sue Hardin |
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Charles Hansen
Starting member
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2011 : 07:22:50
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| Maybe you missed the " Or " - it was precisely what I meant; pagan gods aren't in churches either! . . . . there goes my sense of humor. |
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AlfNh
New on board
Norway
1 Posts |
Posted - 26/12/2013 : 01:21:06
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Dear Charles
It seems we are family. My grandmother is Charles half sister, her name was Petra Constanse, married Thoresen, born in 1906 and died in 2002. Her father was Petter Johannesen, who died the same year as she was born. Her mother, Josefine, was forced to leave the farm when Petter died, leaving it to Petter#347; sons. She re-married Hans Peder Andreas Jensen and moved to Gaukværøya, a small island just outside Vinje, Bø i Vesterålen: https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=68.617778,14.334444&spn=0.1,0.1&q=68.617778,14.334444
They lived there for a number of years. My grandmother with her sister Bergljot and brother Johann. Asta and Oscar were sent to foster care to a farm in Klo/Myre. Although Asta and Oscar were sent to foster care, they kept contact. Oscar, as you already know, went to US. Asta and her sisters were close all through their lives.They always talked about Charles, about the grief in being split as a family and how they missed him.
Parts of our family still lives in Myre Vesterålen.
I have of course a lot more information to you and also a picture of Josefine. I will have them posted within a few days.
GAUKVÆRØYA: http://www.nordnorge.com/sites/n/nordnorge.com/files/d28ab7a3f04bc5ec581ea45f497a8215.jpg
regards
Alf Hansen
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OSKAR J.W. HANSEN – born 1892 in Langenes/Oksnes
