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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9224 Posts |
 Posted - 13/05/2014 : 16:39:45
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Probbably the Iver Dokken travelling with Kari and Bergit.
1900 United States Federal Census
Name: Iver N Docken
[Iven N Docken]
Age: 56
Birth Date: May 1844
Birthplace: Norway
Home in 1900: Lakeville, Grand Forks, North Dakota
Race: White
Gender: Male
Immigration Year: 1881
Relation to Head of House: Head
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Christina Docken
Marriage Year: 1872
Years Married: 28
Father's Birthplace: Norway
Mother's Birthplace: Norway
Occupation:
Household Members:
Name Age
Iver N Docken 56
Christina Docken 53
Sarah Docken 27
Nels Docken 24
Caroline Docken 15
Borga Grotland 61 |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 13/05/2014 : 16:55:59
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
quote:
Originally posted by jwiborg
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
I'm going through the Boka Om Gol right now to see if there are any matching families. There were several farms called "Hallen" but none that I have seen (even though it does look like Haldeneie /Holdenet in the baptismal register) called Halden.
I believe the Halden farm in question was/is a subfarm under Hoftun in Gol. Modern spelling is Halli.
Could be. The lone reference I found was in Boka om Gol III (same volume, so same geographical area as Hoftun) under "Nybråten/ Hallen". The last person entry there is "Nils Guttormson Hallen, f 1928, skriv Halden" but no mentions whatsoever of the first names. There is also a Halden in Nes / Flå but likewise none of the first names under question. So basically pulling a zero until Anton's mention of a 3 way name possibility.
So now I wonder what is the nature of the Pederson maiden name found for her son Henning?
Nybråten/ Hallen is the correct one. I saw some place Halden listed as (Nybråten). |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 14/05/2014 : 03:48:01
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Perhaps this is Kari? North Dakota Naturalizations record index:
Lastname Firstname Country Papers Date County Volume Page Comments
Tronson Kari Norway 1st May 8, 1883 Grand Forks D-5 410 |
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Ted Rolles
Medium member
Canada
75 Posts |
Posted - 14/05/2014 : 07:53:30
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Very interesting since they are on Grøndalen farm (in Hemsedal), #43 on this page:
Source information: Buskerud county, Gol, Parish register (official) nr. I 2 (1837-1863), Birth and baptism records 1853, page 144-145.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7751&idx_id=7751&uid=ny&idx_side=-79
And here is the parents' marriage #15:
Source information: Buskerud county, Gol, Parish register (official) nr. I 2 (1837-1863), Marriage records 1852, page 388-389.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7751&idx_id=7751&uid=ny&idx_side=-206
This couple is found in the Hemsedalslekthistorie on farm Træe, pg 384:
"Ivar [Trondsen] 1828-74-46 bonde i Træe.
Ivar fekk garden g.m syskinbarnet sit Birgit Hansdtr Brandvøl 1823-79-56: .... Kari [Ivarsdatter]1853 rtA (hadde ei datter Birgit Hansdtr 1879)..."
Some interpretation required. The numbers behind the name is the birth year, followed by the year of death, and age at death. RtA is an abbreviation for reise til Amerika (moved or travelled to America). It goes on to say that all the members of the family either died or moved away. Kari has at least one brother who also came to US named Trond b 1851, teacher in south Aurdal then to US.
#53 Bergit Hansdatter's, b. 29 Oct 1879
Source information: Buskerud county, Hemsedal in Gol, Parish register copy nr. II 5 (1875-1891), Birth and baptism records 1879, page 22.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1091&idx_id=1091&uid=ny&idx_side=-25
Here are Kari and baby Bergit leaving Norway in 1881. Interesting the man below Bergit is Iver Hansen Dokken the same fellow who was faddernes to Bergit and also reported the birth.
http://gda.arkivverket.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=11&filnamn=emikra1&gardpostnr=30725&merk=30725#ovre
I was just looking at the highlighted link for #53 and there is another Bergit #54 born to Trondsen which is a name in a few of the posts here. I still have to assume Petersen held some meaning on Hennings death record as well. |
Edited by - Ted Rolles on 14/05/2014 07:58:25 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 14/05/2014 : 14:16:14
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Well, #54 was born to an Ole Trondsen
With the Henning record, it may say Pederson, it may be an unfortunate interpretation of Trondsen written there, or it may be an unfortunate typo in the transcription. Looking at the original record might clear it up. |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9224 Posts |
Posted - 14/05/2014 : 16:21:33
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quote:
I was just looking at the highlighted link for #53 and there is another Bergit #54 born to Trondsen which is a name in a few of the posts here
One of the pertinent things about #53 is the use of the word uægte ie illegitimate (archaic - see "uekte")
A useful dictionary.
http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~norway/na17.html#U
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Edited by - AntonH on 14/05/2014 16:23:25 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9224 Posts |
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Ted Rolles
Medium member
Canada
75 Posts |
Posted - 14/05/2014 : 16:59:43
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quote:
Originally posted by lyndal40
quote:
I was just looking at the highlighted link for #53 and there is another Bergit #54 born to Trondsen which is a name in a few of the posts here
One of the pertinent things about #53 is the use of the word uægte ie illegitimate (archaic - see "uekte")
A useful dictionary.
http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~norway/na17.html#U
Out of curiosity I can't make out what #54 Faddernes Navn portion says but it looks like it mentions someone passing. There have been 6 posts with different records and both USA & Canadian censuses naming her as Kari Pederson so I can't dismiss this connection, as well as numerous posts using the last name Trondsen and her with with a brother Trond which then leads me to many posts with last name being Iverson which I have seen connected as Iver Trondsen. Somehow the two of these must be connected to Pederson Unless Ole did in fact have children with two different Kari's. |
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Ted Rolles
Medium member
Canada
75 Posts |
Posted - 14/05/2014 : 17:07:45
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Not to mention the "faddernes: A.R. Swenseid and wife, Karine
A.A. Mehus and wife Margit". And the "Here are Kari and baby Bergit leaving Norway in 1881. Interesting the man below Bergit is Iver Hansen Dokken the same fellow who was faddernes to Bergit and also reported the birth." Connections, |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9224 Posts |
Posted - 14/05/2014 : 22:33:37
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While digging around in the various Family Trees, I came across one for Bertha Rolles.
Bertha Rolles
Birth 29 Oct 1879 in Hollingsdale, Norway
Death 08 Dec 1937 in Scobey, Daniels, MT
Mother is listed as
Kari Iversdatter Thronsen
Birth 2-16-1853 in Gol, Buskerud, Norway
Death 1929 in Saskatchewan, Canada
Baptism date is given as 3 April 1853
Father is given as Ole M Olson Rolles
So someone had already come to the conclusion that Kari Iverdatter Thronsen is the mother of Bertha.
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Edited by - AntonH on 14/05/2014 22:34:22 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9224 Posts |
Posted - 14/05/2014 : 22:57:09
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Have you looed at Kari's Naruralizaton Papers to see if they contained any information pertinent to her parents.
Minnesota Naturalization Records Index, 1854-1957
Name: Karen O. Rolles
County: Polk
Reel: 4
Code: 8
Volume: I
Page: 245
Document Type: Declaration of Intention
Years: 1900 -1903
Numbers: 1-584
Source Information:
Peterzen, Conrad, ed.. Minnesota Naturalization Records Index, 1854-1957 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 1999.
Description:
An index to the microfilmed Minnesota Naturalization Records
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9224 Posts |
Posted - 14/05/2014 : 23:06:08
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Here is the birth record from Ancestry.com for Thrond Iversen
Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-1927 about Thron Iversen
Name: Thron Iversen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 30 okt 1851 (30 Oct 1851)
Baptism Date: 7 des 1851 (7 Dec 1851)
Baptism Place: Buskerud, Norway
Father: Iver Thronsen
Mother: Birgit Hansdr
FHL Film Number: 123951 |
Edited by - AntonH on 14/05/2014 23:23:42 |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 14/05/2014 : 23:58:33
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[/quote]
Out of curiosity I can't make out what #54 Faddernes Navn portion says but it looks like it mentions someone passing. There have been 6 posts with different records and both USA & Canadian censuses naming her as Kari Pederson so I can't dismiss this connection, as well as numerous posts using the last name Trondsen and her with with a brother Trond which then leads me to many posts with last name being Iverson which I have seen connected as Iver Trondsen. Somehow the two of these must be connected to Pederson Unless Ole did in fact have children with two different Kari's.
[/quote]
Birgit #54 died when she was bap. age 14. days.
She was bap. at home by Sigri Olsdatter Nov. 4. Witnessed by the father and Guri Ellingsdatter Anderdal.
Kåre |
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Ted Rolles
Medium member
Canada
75 Posts |
Posted - 15/05/2014 : 00:00:40
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quote:
Originally posted by lyndal40
While digging around in the various Family Trees, I came across one for Bertha Rolles.
Bertha Rolles
Birth 29 Oct 1879 in Hollingsdale, Norway
Death 08 Dec 1937 in Scobey, Daniels, MT
Mother is listed as
Kari Iversdatter Thronsen
Birth 2-16-1853 in Gol, Buskerud, Norway
Death 1929 in Saskatchewan, Canada
Baptism date is given as 3 April 1853
Father is given as Ole M Olson Rolles
So someone had already come to the conclusion that Kari Iverdatter Thronsen is the mother of Bertha.
That was actually my first cousin whom after I sent the link to this forum had read it and incorporated that info into her tree. She is a descendant of Bertha Rolles and is quite excited to have the information that you all have found! We both appreciate and thank you all very much for the time and effort that you put into helping us. I think that she will most likely be registering as a member here as well. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 15/05/2014 : 16:03:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Ted Rolles
[quote][i]
There have been 6 posts with different records and both USA & Canadian censuses naming her as Kari Pederson so I can't dismiss this connection, as well as numerous posts using the last name Trondsen and her with with a brother Trond which then leads me to many posts with last name being Iverson which I have seen connected as Iver Trondsen. Somehow the two of these must be connected to Pederson Unless Ole did in fact have children with two different Kari's.
The tanglewood here is extensive. You can see that in your cousin's change to her own database as we're working here. Other than people within database posts how many of the 6 actually pertain to a "real" documentary record? The one in Henning's death is the only "real" record I've seen for Pederson. It is a transcribed record not the original. It behooves you to get the original for him along with the other children.
The only "real" record, thus far, for Trondson is the baptismal for daugther Karen Olea. Baptismal records for the rest of the children might reveal answers. So far I haven't seen (in the ELCA databases) any of the other children, but it is known from the censuses that they were each born in North Dakota.
If Ole was truly travelling back and forth between America and Norway, as an adult, what are the documents on that? Never mind what's in someone's database, the actual documents are what I mean. But this may turn out to be a "family tradition" which developed to explain origins of half siblings in the family...
Finding Ole's marriage record[s} might also help, where have you looked?
Going sideways might also reveal things. For instance Kari Iversdatter's brother Trond if found may reveal some family information that could rule her in or out.
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Assistance for "Grindahl, Karen 'carrie'
