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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
 Posted - 09/08/2014 : 06:39:44
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The twin boys Julius and Gilbert Hagen's baptism has some very interesting names of faddernes: Ingeborg Hemmingsdtr, Thorsten J. Boraas, Haagen J. Boraas, Gunhild Torgerson, Anne J. Borsen, Martin G. Hagen, Niels Nielsen, Trons Pederson. They were born 27 May 1877, bapt. 10 June 1877 in Alexandria, the parents are named Johan G. Hagen and Ingeborg Anne Hagen.
The Anne J. Borsen could be a very interesting search.... |
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Erik Carsten
Advanced member
USA
578 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2014 : 20:39:20
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
The twin boys Julius and Gilbert Hagen's baptism has some very interesting names of faddernes: Ingeborg Hemmingsdtr, Thorsten J. Boraas, Haagen J. Boraas, Gunhild Torgerson, Anne J. Borsen, Martin G. Hagen, Niels Nielsen, Trons Pederson. They were born 27 May 1877, bapt. 10 June 1877 in Alexandria, the parents are named Johan G. Hagen and Ingeborg Anne Hagen.
The Anne J. Borsen could be a very interesting search....
I agree with you. Ingeborg Hemmingsdatter was Annie's and Ingeborg Anne's mother. Torsten and Haagen were their brothers. Martin Hagen was John Hagens brother. Anne J. J could stand for josias dater... |
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Erik Carsten
Advanced member
USA
578 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2014 : 20:46:53
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
The faddernes of the eldest child Emma are:
Andreas Syverson
John Gunderson
Carie Maen ?
Ingeborg Josiasdatter
It might be a coincidence It's not coincidental. Here is a marriage in Rice county for a John Gunderson and Isabel Johnson:
RICE MD-226-A 07/29/1872 GUNDERSON, JOHN JOHNSON, ISABEL
Their first child Amelia b. 10 Sept 1872 Faribault, Rice county, Minnesotahttps://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FDMN-B9R:
Here is the family in the 1880 census:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MZ93-5RF
This girl is confirmed 21 Nov 1886 in a Lutheran church identified as in Evansville or Garfield, Minnesota. Her name at confirmation is given as "Emilie Hagen". She is the daughter of Johan G. Hagen and Ingeborg Anna Hagen. Her birthdate is given as 11 Sept 1872 at Faribault, baptized on 25 Oct 1872.
I believe you were searching for a John Hagen family in a prior topic.
of the second child:
Annas ? Rodningen
Ingel Hisdalen
Kristi Vold
Anna Johnsdatter
A few things about Annie and Ingeborg on page 14 of this huge past topic:
http://www.norwayheritage.com/snitz/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3603&whichpage=14
Jackie. John Hagen is John Gundersen. They are one in the same. John Gundersen and his wife Ingeborg can be found in a Rice County in 1875 near Annie and Paul Johnson's family . Are you sure the marriage record shows Isabel Johnson? |
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Erik Carsten
Advanced member
USA
578 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2014 : 21:48:54
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| I am thinking that Paul Johnson May not have had family in the area, else why are there no Johnson's listed as Godparents for their children's births? There was the Anna Johnsdatter however... |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2014 : 23:53:42
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Well, we only have the faddernes for 2 of the children of Paul and Anne so there might be more names if there was a full set of information.
Ingeborg (and I suppose by extension Ingeborganna) is often Anglicized to Isabell or Belle. Why she is a Johnson is questionable--you might resolve that by looking at the original handwritten document. Likewise you might want to get the original document for Anne's and Paul's marriage as well. From that you will find who marriage them, civil or religious and the names of witnesses to the wedding which are often relatives or long-time friends.
If Anne was actually in their area perhaps she was faddernes to Thorsten's and Haagen's kids, also, with her name evolving through time in the record. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2014 : 17:19:28
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Did Josias Boraas have an estate settlement when he died? He did take an original homestead in 1884 in Douglas county and perhaps he still owned his land at the end. If you haven't already tried for it you might consider it and if Anne was still living perhaps she is mentioned?
Back to the beginning re Paul Johnson. From HeritageQuest these are the Johnson heads of household, born in Norway, living in 1870 in Rice county Minnesota:
Surname Given Name Age Sex Race Birthplace State County Location Year
JOHNSON ANDREW 25 M W NORW MN RICE WARSAW TWP 1870
JOHNSON ANDREW 58 M W NORW MN RICE WEBSTER TWP 1870
JOHNSON ANNA 30 F W NORW MN RICE BRIDGEWATER 1870
JOHNSON ARANAH 23 M W NORW MN RICE WARSAW TWP 1870
JOHNSON BELL 19 F W NORW MN RICE NORTHFIELD 1870
JOHNSON BELL 17 F W NORW MN RICE WHEELING 1870
JOHNSON BETSY 60 M W NORW MN RICE NORTHFIELD 1870
JOHNSON ELLING 40 M W NORW MN RICE WHEELING 1870
JOHNSON EMMA 19 F W NORW MN RICE FARIBAULT 1870
JOHNSON EMMA 18 F W NORW MN RICE FARIBAULT 1870
JOHNSON EMMA 14 F W NORW MN RICE NORTHFIELD 1870
JOHNSON HALVER 28 M W NORW MN RICE RICHLAND 1870
JOHNSON HENDRIK 43 M W NORW MN RICE NORTHFIELD 1870
JOHNSON JACOB 38 M W NORW MN RICE WHEELING 1870
JOHNSON JOHN 40 M W NORW MN RICE FARIBAULT 1870
JOHNSON JOHN 35 M W NORW MN RICE FARIBAULT 1870
JOHNSON JOHN 28 M W NORW MN RICE FOREST TWP 1870
JOHNSON JOHN 25 M W NORW MN RICE NORTHFIELD 1870
JOHNSON JOHN 18 M W NORW MN RICE NORTHFIELD 1870
JOHNSON JOHN 75 M W NORW MN RICE WHEELING 1870
JOHNSON JOHN 30 M W NORW MN RICE NORTHFIELD 1870
JOHNSON JULIUS 37 M W NORW MN RICE FARIBAULT 1870
JOHNSON LEWIS 75 M W NORW MN RICE WHEELING 1870
JOHNSON MARTHA 20 F W NORW MN RICE NORTHFIELD 1870
JOHNSON MARTIN 36 M W NORW MN RICE RICHLAND 1870
JOHNSON MARY 19 F W NORW MN RICE NORTHFIELD 1870
JOHNSON MATILDA 18 F W NORW MN RICE FARIBAULT 1870
JOHNSON NELS 33 M W NORW MN RICE WEBSTER TWP 1870
JOHNSON NILS 23 M W NORW MN RICE FARIBAULT 1870
JOHNSON OLE 22 M W NORW MN RICE NORTHFIELD 1870
JOHNSON OLE 36 M W NORW MN RICE RICHLAND 1870
JOHNSON OLIVER 10 M W NORW MN RICE FOREST TWP 1870
JOHNSON PAUL 26 M W NORW MN RICE FARIBAULT 1870
JOHNSON PETER 24 M W NORW MN RICE WARSAW TWP 1870
A history of Rice & Steele counties says that Elling Johnson came to county mid to late 1850s from Iowa. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2014 : 02:05:53
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I made a fairly thorough search for the baptismal record of Anne Hagen (daughter of Ingeborganna and John Gunderson Hagen) but wasn't successful. I had a notion she was named Anne in honor of her aunt and was hoping that Anne might have been faddernes. Here is a death index listing for Anne Hagen (at least I'm reasonably certain it's her, even though her last name is not Thompson) :
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VP7J-PNG
Quite a few different spellings of Boraas have been seen: Barros, Burros, Burras, Boras, and Bouriss.
Anne J. Borsen search has likewise been unproductive. All the names of the faddernes for Julius & Gilbert Hagen are fairly clearly written except for the last 4 names including Anne's. Perhaps Borsen is another attempted spelling for Boraas and she started using a maiden name after the death of her husband or because the record reflects a Norwegian heritage in which women did carry their own names in records rather being known as Mrs. so-&-so?
Re the 1875 census: There is another possibility that Thomas J. Johnson is Thorsten Josiasen but just counted twice in the census once with his parents and again with his sister. Trains would make such travel short work and either Thorsten or his brother were a teamster used to distance travel.
And I thought I saw a death record for one of the daughters of Paul and Anne occuring in 1880 in Rice so will get back with that when I find.
It was a daughter Anna Johnson of Paul Johnson who was born at Kimball Minnesota (which is in Stearns county) who died age 4 in 1880 at Jackson county, Minnesota. So probably not the ones we seek.
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Edited by - jkmarler on 11/08/2014 02:20:38 |
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Erik Carsten
Advanced member
USA
578 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2014 : 02:55:19
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Hi Jackie. Thank you for your efforts but I think we are spinning our wheels. I believe everything you have proposed is sound thinking but the facts remain no census information records the family after 1875 and they have in fact disappeared, which is very frustrating..
I have just now sent an email off to Joel Thorsen at ELCA beseeching him to look again for the marriage record of Paul Johnson, date 11-12-1870, according to the MOMS Marriage Index.
ps. I had the same thought about John and Ingeborge Hagens daughter Annie who was born in 1890. I believe she was born in Duluth as they are said to have moved there is 1888 so were you looking at Duluth Church records?
Best. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2014 : 04:23:44
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Well if they didn't get married in a religious setting, do get the civil record which you know exists.
Perhaps the family was transitioning away from Johnson to a farm name just as the Gunderson Hagens were doing at about the same time?
I use the ELCA databases at Archives.com --so somewhat uncontrollable searches only. For instance in your Josias' marriage to Margit, his name is indexed as "Tobias Th Boraas", so somewhat disguised.
Perhaps Iowa refers to someplace other than the state, like a township or a county?
And usually when people disappear so completely, a check in Canadian records might be in order. Censuses 1901, 1911, 1916, 1922 etc. |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9224 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2014 : 05:55:00
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Erik, you may be well aware of the Stories posted by Robert McConnell on his Family Tree on Ancestry.com. He covers the family in great detail. I will post only a snippet from here and there from the several page story.
"This is a rough sketch of Ingeborganna Børaas, who married John Gundersen, later known as Hagen.
Ingeborganna’s parents were Josias and Ingeborg Børaas. She had 2 younger brothers named Torsten and Haagen, and an older sister name Annie.
In the 1875 Minnesota Census, Ingeborganna is found with her husband, John Hagen and their daughter Emilia in Faribault Minnesota. Emilia was born September 9, 1872 and was baptized at Zion Lutheran Church in Faribault, Minnesota. At this time the family was using the surname of Gundersen. Note that her sister, Annie, is living nearby with her husband Paul Johnson. After this census we have no more information on what became of Annie and her family"
Lots more in the story if you have not read it.
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Edited by - AntonH on 11/08/2014 05:56:37 |
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Erik Carsten
Advanced member
USA
578 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2014 : 09:14:54
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quote:
Originally posted by lyndal40
Erik, you may be well aware of the Stories posted by Robert McConnell on his Family Tree on Ancestry.com. He covers the family in great detail. I will post only a snippet from here and there from the several page story.
"This is a rough sketch of Ingeborganna Børaas, who married John Gundersen, later known as Hagen.
Ingeborganna’s parents were Josias and Ingeborg Børaas. She had 2 younger brothers named Torsten and Haagen, and an older sister name Annie.
In the 1875 Minnesota Census, Ingeborganna is found with her husband, John Hagen and their daughter Emilia in Faribault Minnesota. Emilia was born September 9, 1872 and was baptized at Zion Lutheran Church in Faribault, Minnesota. At this time the family was using the surname of Gundersen. Note that her sister, Annie, is living nearby with her husband Paul Johnson. After this census we have no more information on what became of Annie and her family"
Lots more in the story if you have not read it.
--------------------
Thank you! I have read it...it was actually me who wrote it!! We are running into ourselves over this Paul and Johnson but I am sure we will eventually find them!!
My best to you.
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
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Erik Carsten
Advanced member
USA
578 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2014 : 15:21:07
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Here is an Annie Johnson b. 1847 dying in Iowa--not truly enough information to accept or eliminate:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XVHN-ZZX
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Jackie, except according to biographical sketch of her brother, published n 1902, she was living in Iowa with her 4 children.... |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2014 : 16:00:53
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Well, okay, it's really up to you to look, but one obvious possibility is that the reason she doesn't appear in census after census might be because she is dead, despite the tense of the words used to describe her in the history.
Roland is in Story county, Iowa. The usgenweb page for Story county has a lot of neat databases of Story county records including a marriage database covering 1854-1909.
Granted Johnson is an exceedingly common name as are the first names of the girls but there was a marriage in 1891 of a Torres Kaltvet & Emma Johnson and in 1893 one between an N.P. Christianson & Lena Johnson and numerous between Isabel Johnson & others.
Further research into Niels P Christianson marriage with Lena has indicated that yes she was born Nov 1875 in Polk county, Iowa and despite the first initial of her first name being an L in the Story marriage transcriptions, she seems to always in the censuses be clearly rendered as Sena. So off the table.
I wasn't able to find Torres yet but the other Kaltvet/ Kaltvedt families in Story came from Kopervik in Rogaland. Niels P Christianson is listed with wife Sena age 19 (born Polk Iowa or Minnesota? ) in the 1895 census transcription at the site. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 11/08/2014 20:40:02 |
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Erik Carsten
Advanced member
USA
578 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2014 : 16:01:49
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quote:
Originally posted by JaneC
I wonder is it at all possible Thomas J is the Thomas Johnson born ca 1855 living with Annie in 1875? (I realize "J" should stand for Josiasen)
1900
Lake Mary, Douglas, Minnesota
Thomas J Barros 44
Christena M Barras 39
Emily D Barras 17
Willie H Barras 13
Eddie J Barras 12
Albertina V Barras 9
Melvin T Barras 7
Jennie C Barras 5
Mable O Barras 3
Florence A Barras 1
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Hi Jane, I have been mulling this possibility over and Jackie seems to have seconded your notion. In 1875 Thomas is still known as Thorsten by his parents and included in the census living in Douglas County Minnesota. the surname is spelled Burrows. His younger brother was listed as "Henry" even though his birth name was Haagen. Also in this grouping, JOsias is said to be born in "Sweden" and we know this is not the case...so whoever filled out the census for this family grouping was not getting accurate information or there was some misunderstanding.
I believe it to be a strong possibility that the Thomas J. "Johnson" living with Annie and Paul Johnson is Annie's brother Torsten (Thomas) born 1855...age 20. |
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Paul Johnson
