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nananders
Starting member
USA
9 Posts |
 Posted - 04/01/2015 : 20:17:45
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Hello!
I am working on researching my great grandfather, Peter Olaf Rood and have hit the "brick wall". Peter reports he emigrated to the U.S. from Norway in 1900. He filed papers for Alien Registration in 1918, and I have a copy which I received from the Iron Range Research Center in Hibbing, MN. He reports on the application that he arrived in the US on May 20, 1900 with his port of entry into the U.S. as Stevens Point, Wisconsin. This doesn't make sense to me, as I believe he would have had to enter the U.S. somewhere else. He also reports on this two page application that he never filed for naturalization because he didn't remember the name of the boat or the first station he first entered. Peter never did file for naturalization as far as I can find.
Peter reports his birth date as October 14, 1880 in "Little Hammer" Norway on this application. He reports the same birthdate on his World War I draft card in 1917-18, which also states he was being held in the County Jail in Duluth, MN. We think he was in jail because when he registered for the draft, he had not declared himself as an alien, thus prompting him to file the alien registration papers in 1918. Just our guess. Interesting enough, Peter was married at this time to my great grandmother, who was born here in Minnesota, but she also had to register as an alien because at that time if you married an alien you gave up your citizenship...at least that is what they told me at the history center.
Peter ended up in Minneapolis, Minnesota and on June 23, 1903 married my great grandmother, Selma Ruth Anderson. They moved to Duluth where Peter was a tailor. I have censuses, etc. from his life here in Minnesota. He died on February 20, 1938 in Minneapolis.
Where I am stuck is researching more about him in Norway. I have no information, nor does my mother, about Peter's parents, etc. the only clues I have about him are his birthdate and him reporting he was born in Little Hammer, or Lillehammer, I believe. I have searched on ancestry.com, the digital archives of Norway, parish books for Lillehammer and surrounding parishes in Oppland and come up empty. I have read about the naming system in Norway and realize his name may have been different in Norway. Peter does sometimes write his name as Peder Rud, Peter Ruud, but most the time uses Peter Olaf Rood. His wife took Rood, and his children go by Rood.
Any suggestions or ideas to help me with my research? My parents and I are traveling to Scandinavia this summer, and would like to know more about his family and where they came from.
Thank you for any help or suggestions!
Nancy Anderson |
Nancy |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2015 : 21:46:38
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Here is Peter Olaf b. 1880 in Lillehammer at familysearch.org:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NWF8-L2G
This may be the book, page and entry information for this person:
B1 P11 E 21
#21 baptism
Source information: Oppland county, Lillehammer landsokn (Mesna) in Fåberg, Parish register (official) nr. 9 (1879-1898), Birth and baptism records 1880, page 11.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=5044&idx_id=5044&uid=ny&idx_side=-14
This Peder Olaf was an illegitimate child of his parents. His father's residence farm looks like Ramsøs.
There are three different Lillehammer parishes covering 1880 in the listings in Oppland at the digitalarkiverket. Have you looked at all 3 for your ancestor?
Sometimes the place where people leave from is different from where they were born or where they grew up. You could look for Peder's confirmation in about 1895 at Lillehammer, perhaps the family moved in between 1880 and 1895?
These are just some of the suggestions I would make.
I looked up this Peder's confirmation and found him #1:
Source information: Oppland county, Lillehammer landsokn (Mesna) in Fåberg, Parish register (official) nr. 9 (1879-1898), Confirmation records 1895, page 194.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=5044&idx_id=5044&uid=ny&idx_side=-195
There is an interesting note on the far right of the entry that says he got an "attest" in 1901. Usually folks get these "attests" from their pastor when they are leaving or getting married elsewhere. When did your Peder come to US? Sorry I see 1900 in your original post. That point of entry is likely if he came through Canada and over the Great Lakes. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 04/01/2015 22:17:18 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9225 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2015 : 23:43:08
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Nan,
You can search Norwegian Baptism records on Ancestry.com. For example searching "Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-1927" for Peder Ols* born 1880 in Oppland shows only the person found by Jackie above. There are not any Peder Ols* born on Oct 14 in 1878, 1879, 1880, 1881, and 1882 in Oppland.
NAME: Peder Olof Olsen
GENDER: Male
BIRTH DATE: 15 jul 1880
BAPTISM DATE: 29 aug 1880
BAPTISM PLACE: Lillehammer, Opland, Norway
FATHER: Ole Pedersen
MOTHER: Mathea Pedersdr
FHL FILM NUMBER: 1282621
In fact there is only one person from this data set born on 14 Oct 1880 in all of Norway. The data set may not of course account for every birth in Norway on 14 Oct 1880. This one.
NAME: Peder Nikalai Olsen
GENDER: Male
BIRTH DATE: 30 okt 1880 (30 Oct 1880)
BAPTISM DATE: 14 nov 1880
BAPTISM PLACE: Austre Moland, Aust-Agder, Norway
FATHER: Torbjorn Olsen
MOTHER: Berthe Gjeruldsdr
FHL FILM NUMBER: 1283343
REFERENCE ID: Bk 1 Pg 1 |
Edited by - AntonH on 04/01/2015 23:46:02 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2015 : 23:46:32
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What church were Peter and Selma married in? T.F. Allen doesn't look like a Norwegian name but you never know. Sometimes in Lutheran church weddings the pastor was trained in the "old country" and kept track similar to Norwegian way of recording. Here is the marriage license:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-17871-96979-20?cc=1803974
Their marriage ended in an unamicable way. Have you gotten the file, if it still exists, on that? Genealogybank carries the Duluth newspaper and it appears 1918-1920 were all she wrote from the listings I saw. I'm guessing ending up in custody may have been a bridge too far.
Here on this record of his son, his birthplace is given as "Littleham":
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FD9X-ZQZ
Here is the draft registration card. Selma is living in Minneapolis and he is in Duluth:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-26447-22793-33?cc=1968530
Here is what Lakewood Cemetery has on Peter's file:
Name PETER ROOD Birth 0/00/0000
Age 57 Death 2/20/1938 Disposition 2/23/1938
Place of Death NA,
Interment CREMATION
Final Disposition RETURN CREMAINS
Property N/A
Property Type
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Edited by - jkmarler on 05/01/2015 00:12:35 |
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nananders
Starting member
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2015 : 00:35:08
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Hello!
Thank you so much for the information and record suggestions.
I have searched all three parish registers covering Lillehammer during this time, I have even searched nearby parishes. Interesting enough, I had saved this record for Peter Olaf as a possible match for my grandfather. I first disregarded it because of the last names not matching up. Olsen and Ruud. But, I learned through all my research and reading that sometimes people took their last name based on the farm they were living/working. So, realized it could be possible that he worked on a Ruud farm and took that as his last name.
The other reason I haven't accepted this completely as my great grandfather is the fact that the birthdates don't match. Not sure why he would be reporting his birthdate as October 14,1880 if it was in fact July 15, 1880?
Here is something else...I found this same Peter Olaf Olsen birth record in the Hedmark County, Rinsaker Brottom Parish register for 1879-1890...Here is the link:
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?show=11&uid=320643&urnread_imagesize=full&hode=nei&ls=1&lc=x%259CK%25B42%25B2%25AA.%25B62%25B4R%25CAT%25B2.%25B62%25B1R2304%25051%2581B%25C5J%25D6%2599V%2586%2586%25D6%25B5%2500%25BFW%2509%25B0
It would have been the 31st entry, but is listed as 0. Also, where they would normally identify the godparents, it appears to talk about someone dying in Lillehammer on September 6, 1880. So, I guessed they were stating the child died??? Obviously not...so, not sure if you can help me to understand that?
Also, I think it is important that I share a little bit more information about my great grandfather...my mother was told that he was an alcoholic. Selma, his wife, did leave him sometime between 1917-1920. Selma has returned to Mpls, by 1920 and is living with her parents again according to the 1920 census. By this time, Selma and Peter had three children. However, Selma's parents wouldn't allow all 3 children to live with them in Minneapolis, so Selma brought the oldest daughter with her to Minneapolis, and my grandmother and her younger brother were placed in an Orphanage in Superior, Wisconsin. My grandmother did return to Minneapolis when she was about 17, to live with a family to be their housekeeper.
The only reason I share that, is because it does raise questions about my great grandfather and how honest or accurate he was. As you can imagine, this is why we know so little about my great grandfather. He basically had little to no contact with the family ever again, and my grandmother wouldn't talk about him. When he died, we know he was cremated at Lakewood Cemetery in Minneapolis, and his son picked up the ashes and "dealt" with them. We have no idea if he was buried or what my mom's uncle did with them. He never told anyone. Crazy, right?
Again, thank you so much for all your help...and if you can help me understand that second birth record in Hedmark County that would be great.
Nancy Anderson
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2015 : 00:54:40
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Your URL to the Peter Olaf Olsen birth record in the Hedmark County, Rinsaker Brottom Parish register will soon "die"... the proper link
The comment says: "Christened in Lillehammer as per Certificate of 06 Sep 1880."
So Peder Olaf was christened in Lillehammer, and for the record, the Brøttum priest entered the data in his churchbook. I assume Peder and the mother lived in Brøttum since the priest did this.
The record is listed as 0 since the christening did not take place in the Brøttum church.
This seems to be the same persons, Peder Olaf living with his mother Regine Mathia in Lillehammer-1900.
Census-1900 for house Gamleveien 4a, Lillehammer.
Date of census: 03 DEC 1900.
Tinsmith Peder Olaf Ramsøy, born 1880 in Brøttum, Hedmark
Official support for housing, short-time servant employment, Regine Mathia Pedersen, born 1852 in Faaberg, Oppland
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Edited by - jwiborg on 05/01/2015 01:21:31 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2015 : 01:18:09
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| The Brøttum record which must be based on the 06-sep-1880-certificate, says date of birth = 15 JUNE 1880. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2015 : 01:33:30
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There a number of farms named Lillehammer in the 1865 census, that might be the Lillehammer origin:
Østfold--Rødenæs
Hedmark--Søndre Odalen & Aamot
Oppland--Fåberg (natch)
Rogaland-- Suledal
Sogn og Fjordane --Indvigen
Nord Trøndelag-- Inderøen |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2015 : 01:57:22
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I haven't searched. Quick comment. Mostly because you express uncertainty about what info to trust, and I have some guesses about that (another pair of eyes, etc).
Jkmarler asks, do you have copy of the original marriage record? Witnesses could be family.
Do you have copy of the original of his death record? Available from Minnesota Historical Society. It should list his parents, though given his life story, the informant on the record might not know the patents. Might be worth a shot.
Have you searched for his entry into US? I assume yes. The date is iffy - sounds as if he can't recall and needs to write some date on that form. If he went first to Stevens Point, Wisconsin, perhaps he entered at Port Huron. Not the only possibility, obviously.
His patronymic name is not known, from the research in US records posted here - but he DID have a patronymic. He might not show up in a church record as Ruud, but presumably you searched for Peter Olaf born on that date.
Ruud or rud can be the last syllable of a farm name - it can be a shortened version of the place name. Olaf Rygh online database provides a list of farm names.
His first names should likely be true: Peder, Peter, Petter and Olaf, Oluf, Olav, Olaus, Olai etc.
An immigrant's day and month of birth, when stated by the person himself, and repeated in two records, are likely correct. Year of birth is sometimes off, as it seems to me.
If he was a tailor, that is a special skill, and born about 1880 and immigrating about 1900, he should be a tailor when immigrating (which could help identify him if entry record omits his middle name). Another omission in a record of entry could be Ruud (and variants). It is not unheard of an immigrant traveled under his patronymic (Peter Olaf Hansen, for example, instead of Peter Olaf Ruud).
Lillehammer might not be place of birth, and you've allowed for that, but leaving records can be checked, but again you probably did that. The idea of checking confirmation records is excellent.
1900 census in Stevens Point can be checked for Ruuds, Roods - An immigrant may land in NYC for no reason except it's a generic place to land (for example) but Stevens Point is a very specific small town in the Midwest, and he must have gone there for a reason. Seems unlikely he would make that up, as a landing place.
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Edited by - JaneC on 05/01/2015 02:16:27 |
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nananders
Starting member
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2015 : 02:16:57
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Thank you for clarifying the Hedmark birth record. I certainly misunderstood that!
Funny thing...I was looking for the 1910 census also to see if Peter Ramsoy was still there, by the time I found it and cam to reply, surprise, you already had shared that. You are much quicker than I at searching these things.
Earlier I was asked if I had received a copy of the divorce papers. I have not. Not sure where I can get those. We knew he was divorced, and it states that on his death record.
Again, thank you so much for the time you have given to helping me with my research! I'll keep digging!!!
Nancy Anderson |
Nancy |
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nananders
Starting member
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2015 : 02:39:47
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Hi Jane!
Thank you for the suggestions...I will try to answer some of your questions.
We have a copy of his death certificate, it doesn't report any parents. I don't have a copy of his death record? Is this different than the death certificate? We obtained the death certificate from the county, not the historical society. So, if there is something I can get from the historical society, I certainly will. The death certificate just states he was born in Lillehammer, Norway.
I have searched for Peter, Peter Olaf, and their variations in the parish records of Lillehammer surrounding parishes. After learning more about the naming system used in Norway, I knew to not limit my search to just Peter Olaf Rood and variations of that. I have looked and done searches through the leaving records, and confirmation records. Again, I keep coming up empty.
I have also done a search in Stevens Point, Wisconsin for Roods. There were Roods living in the area, as I found newspaper articles reporting on Roods, and there are some historical records. But, again, I have no idea how to connect them to my great grandfather.
As someone pointed out earlier in this post, there doesn't appear to be any Peter, or Peter Olaf born on October 14, 1880 in all of Norway. Whenever I do a search that specific, I get 0 hits. I have done a search of the digital archives with no names, and just that birth date, there are people born on that date obviously, but none that I can see connect to my great grandfather.
He was a tailor, and Selma was a seamstress. I am guessing that is how they met initially in Minneapolis. My mom says she had heard he was very talented, and that he even made the suits for their wedding, and Selma made the dresses. I have pictures of their wedding and it appears to be very nice, the clothes were very nice. It appears to be a rather large wedding and a nice one. Selma's father owned a dairy, and also built homes. My mom says she had heard they had money. So, it is interesting to me that they wouldn't allow all three of Selma's children to come live with them when she left Peter.
Thanks again for your help and suggestions, I will keep searching and hopefully get lucky some day!
Nancy |
Nancy |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2015 : 03:42:17
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quote:
Originally posted by nananders
I have also done a search in Stevens Point, Wisconsin for Roods. There were Roods living in the area, as I found newspaper articles reporting on Roods, and there are some historical records. But, again, I have no idea how to connect them to my great grandfather.
As someone pointed out earlier in this post, there doesn't appear to be any Peter, or Peter Olaf born on October 14, 1880 in all of Norway.
Thanks again for your help and suggestions, I will keep searching and hopefully get lucky some day!
Nancy
Re the church in which they married--what's the denomination? Non Lutherans in the parishes in Norway are sometimes only found in the "dissentere" registers and perhaps that's where he is. Lillehammer might have had such a population.
The Familysearch.org Norway Baptism database is not comprehensive, the individual parish registers transcribed and online at the digitalarkivet are not comprehensive. Therefore, it is not yet known how many or who they all are that are born on that date. Those that stayed in Norway and lived til 1910 should show up in the 1910 census.
Where did the Roods at Stevens Point come from? I found only one Rood indexed as from Lillehammer (actually as Sille Hammer) in the WWI draft registration database at familysearch. His name was Chris Christenson Rood b 1886 and the farm he was from was Askjelrud. |
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nananders
Starting member
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2015 : 06:18:27
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I will try to find out what church Peter and Selma were married in. I am not sure, but will look into it. I know my grandmother was Christian Scientist, and she raised her children that way, and so my siblings and I were also brought up in the Christian Science Church. The Christian Science Church doesn't perform marriages, so that is why I am not sure what church they were married in. I guess I don't know for sure how my grandmother came to the Christian Science religion...if Selma was a Christian Scientist???
In an earlier post, you posted the marriage license and also had found out they were divorced. I had the marriage license, and I knew they had been divorced but I could never find any record of the divorce. Where did you find a record of their divorce?
Nancy
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Getting past the brick wall...
