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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
7771 Posts

Posted - 07/07/2022 :  18:09:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This typeface is called Fraktur. Here is Wikipedia about fraktur:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraktur

Use the full alphabet there to read the letters and then type into Google translate. GT is getting better able to handle Norwegian.
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dylankylesimon
Senior member

USA
200 Posts

Posted - 14/02/2023 :  02:10:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler

A possible Marte Helgesdatter b 14 July 1814 Norderhov #15 right page:
SAKO, Norderhov kirkebøker, F/Fa/L0008: Parish register (official) no. 8, 1814-1833, p. 4-5
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070313660605

Marte Helgesdatter #29 confirmation 1829:
SAKO, Norderhov kirkebøker, F/Fa/L0009: Parish register (official) no. 9, 1819-1837, p. 790-791
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070314630035





So it looks like there are actually two entries for Marte's birth:

Jackie: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070313660605 - Can we transcribe Colum 3, and 4?

Red means, I am unsure or don't know...

Colum #3:

Juni 24 i Houg Lunder

Colum #4:
... Helge Her-
mandsen og ...
Ragnild Svendsdr
vaa gaarden
Mÿre i Houg
...


Mine: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/8529/84904/3 - Can we transcribe Colum 3, and 4?

Red means, I am unsure or don't know...

Colum #3:

Juni 24 i Houg ...

Colum #4:
... Helge Her-
mandsen og ...
Ragnild Svendsdat
ter vaa gaarden
Mÿre i Houg
...


is Mÿre a farm?
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
7771 Posts

Posted - 14/02/2023 :  02:52:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dylankylesimon

quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler

A possible Marte Helgesdatter b 14 July 1814 Norderhov #15 right page:
SAKO, Norderhov kirkebøker, F/Fa/L0008: Parish register (official) no. 8, 1814-1833, p. 4-5
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070313660605

Marte Helgesdatter #29 confirmation 1829:
SAKO, Norderhov kirkebøker, F/Fa/L0009: Parish register (official) no. 9, 1819-1837, p. 790-791
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070314630035





So it looks like there are actually two entries for Marte's birth:

Jackie: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070313660605 - Can we transcribe Colum 3, and 4?

Red means, I am unsure or don't know...

Colum #3:

Juni 24 i Houg Lunder

Colum #4:
... Helge Her-
mandsen og ...
Ragnild Svendsdr
vaa gaarden
Mÿre i Houg
...


Mine: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/8529/84904/3 - Can we transcribe Colum 3, and 4?

Red means, I am unsure or don't know...

Colum #3:

Juni 24 i Houg ...

Colum #4:
... Helge Her-
mandsen og ...
Ragnild Svendsdat
ter vaa gaarden
Mÿre i Houg
...


is Mÿre a farm?



Myre is a farm. Myre can be spelled a number of different ways --it means moor.

Yes there can be two books which contain the same record. This was part of the system of making correct copies. The pastor and the clerk kept two separate books and then they were supposed to get together and correct any deficiencies between the two, which they sometimes did and sometimes didn't.

It appears that you actually want help with column 5....
hmd [abbreviation of husmand] Helge Hermundsen and [his] wife Ragnhild Svendsdatter on the farm Myre in Hougs Annex

She was baptized in Hougs kirke [church]


Edited by - jkmarler on 14/02/2023 02:58:41
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dylankylesimon
Senior member

USA
200 Posts

Posted - 14/02/2023 :  03:19:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Awesome, thank you! I have never actually traced Marte's siblings. I found 9 siblings, but only 3 survived: Mari Helgesd., Svend Helgesen, and Anne Helgesd.

1795 - For entries like this one, is the left side the Birth Date and the right side the Baptism Date?

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/8526/42031/7

Right Page #7 Mari

March 8 Helge Hermandsen almeeje og Ragnil Svensdatter Mari dåp 12th april

If it doesn't say dåp what does the little scribble say?

1801 - Additionally, here is the 1801 Census that Mari is mentioned in:

Right side - 3rd Entry under Alme

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/58270/28

1827 - Someone claims that Mari Helgesdatter Almeeje is the same Mari as in this marriage with Lars Pedersen. How would I confirm that's the truth? Nordby certainly not Alme?

#28
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/327/pv00000001685433

1868 - The same person claims that this is Mari's death entry:

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/267/pg00000003582754
__________

Also looking for Maren Svendsdatter (daughter of Svend Helgesen) and Berent Olsen after 1864 - And any descendants

Maren Svendsdatter Alme Eie born 30 MAY 1834 Norderhov, Buskerud, Norway; baptism 3 Aug 1834 Norderhov, Buskerud, Norway

#58 #57 Father Svend Helgesen; Mother Mari Olsdatter

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/255/pd00000036864488

#58 Marriage Maren with Berent Olsen (f. 1839) 4 JUL 1864 at the Vor Frelsers kirke in Oslo, Norway

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/327/pv00000005518403
https://www.nb.no/items/523852cdebe1441484d9e4a178deb1c1?page=1&searchText=%22Berent%20Olsen%22%20AND%20%22Maren%20Svendsdatter%22
https://www.nb.no/items/04d232a5f842c6dc04ddaea050885c56?page=1&searchText=%22%20Svendsdatter%22%20AND%20%22Berent%20Olsen%22
__________

Also looking for Anne Helgesdatter Almeeje

Left side - 1st Entry below the banner Adventus 1803
1803 - December 11 Helge Hermandsen Almeeje og Ragnil Svensd Anne

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/255/pd00000013959712

Edited by - dylankylesimon on 14/02/2023 05:41:08
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
7771 Posts

Posted - 14/02/2023 :  13:51:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dylankylesimon



1827 - Someone claims that Mari Helgesdatter Almeeje is the same Mari as in this marriage with Lars Pedersen. How would I confirm that's the truth? Nordby certainly not Alme?

#28
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/327/pv00000001685433

1868 - The same person claims that this is Mari's death entry:

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/267/pg00000003582754
__________




PH.D method: Pile it Higher and Deeper method. You don't have all bookend information about Mari, her parents, or all the sibs. Even Marthe's marriage is missing, right?

Get the confirmation record of Mari to see if she turns up in Norderhov or elsewhere.

Understand the geography. Jevnaker is not that far from Ringerike, but so are a lot of other places.

See who Mari is fadder for, if any.

Look for utflyttede / innflyttede records both Norderhov and Jevnaker.

Look for dodsfallsprotokol for her parents.
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dylankylesimon
Senior member

USA
200 Posts

Posted - 16/02/2023 :  04:45:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler

quote:
Originally posted by dylankylesimon



1827 - Someone claims that Mari Helgesdatter Almeeje is the same Mari as in this marriage with Lars Pedersen. How would I confirm that's the truth? Nordby certainly not Alme?

#28
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/327/pv00000001685433

1868 - The same person claims that this is Mari's death entry:

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/267/pg00000003582754
__________




PH.D method: Pile it Higher and Deeper method. You don't have all bookend information about Mari, her parents, or all the sibs. Even Marthe's marriage is missing, right?

Get the confirmation record of Mari to see if she turns up in Norderhov or elsewhere.

Understand the geography. Jevnaker is not that far from Ringerike, but so are a lot of other places.

See who Mari is fadder for, if any.

Look for utflyttede / innflyttede records both Norderhov and Jevnaker.

Look for dodsfallsprotokol for her parents.



Thank you for all the tips! I was able to find Svend and Anne's Confirmation

#40 Svend Helgesen Myre i Houg 1814 – Can’t read parents... 17 aar
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/8528/42050/6

#5 Anne Helgesdatter Egge 1818 - Helge Herm and ... 15 aar
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/8528/42050/22

I was also able to DNA-match my granduncle's DNA with 2 of Mari's descendants, so I am pretty much DNA-matched on every side possible.

I might attack my 5th great-granduncle Peder Evensen Øvern next, his christening was on 23 Jun 1776 Øvern in Norderhov, Buskerud, Norway. But it looks like you have your hands full right now right? If you have some more free time and want to help me with Peder, go for it! The handwriting was at times so bad, I couldn't make it out. I also don't understand why they overlapped writing so much in some of these records. Was paper this expensive?

Edited by - dylankylesimon on 16/02/2023 04:49:38
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
7771 Posts

Posted - 16/02/2023 :  05:35:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dylankylesimon


Thank you for all the tips! I was able to find Svend and Anne's Confirmation

#40 Svend Helgesen Myre i Houg 1814 – Can’t read parents... 17 aar
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/8528/42050/6

I was also able to DNA-match my granduncle's DNA with 2 of Mari's descendants, so I am pretty much DNA-matched on every side possible.




The preprinted form gives 3 possibles to be entered here: the parents, huusbonden (the person to whom they are bound as a huusman?), foster parents and where they live. The name is huusbonden Simen Fougner.
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dylankylesimon
Senior member

USA
200 Posts

Posted - 16/02/2023 :  06:40:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler

quote:
Originally posted by dylankylesimon


Thank you for all the tips! I was able to find Svend and Anne's Confirmation

#40 Svend Helgesen Myre i Houg 1814 – Can’t read parents... 17 aar
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/8528/42050/6

I was also able to DNA-match my granduncle's DNA with 2 of Mari's descendants, so I am pretty much DNA-matched on every side possible.




The preprinted form gives 3 possibles to be entered here: the parents, huusbonden (the person to whom they are bound as a huusman?), foster parents and where they live. The name is huusbonden Simen Fougner.



Got it!

On another note:

Herman Pedersen Wiul (Today Viul next to Eggemoen Airport) and Ane Iversdatter Marriage 26 OCT 1764 https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/8524/42025/119 (6th great-grandfather)
Son Peder Hermansen Viol Baptism 11 NOV 1764 https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/8524/42025/120 (5th great-granduncle)
Son Peder Hermansen Wiol Baptism 1 FEB 1767 https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/8524/42025/156 (5th ggu)
Son Iver Hermansen Baptism 2 OCT 1768 https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/8524/42025/183 (5th ggu)
Son Helge Hermansen Wiul Baptism 9 FEB 1772 https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/8524/42025/235 (my 5th great-grandfather)
Son Christopher Hermansen Baptism 28 JUL 1776 https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/8525/42028/30 (5th ggu)

Peder (1764) lists a Capitain Tandberg, Lieutenant Nernst? Sounds kind off interesting. Herman Pedersen according to familysearch was born in 1738, but I couldn't find the birth entry, but I could imagine maybe there is a story in a book somewhere?

Can you access? Historien om Viul : et industrisamfunn gjennom 350 år ?

Edited by - dylankylesimon on 16/02/2023 06:45:26
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
7771 Posts

Posted - 16/02/2023 :  13:45:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
#29 Anne Helgesdatter gets married:
Norderhov kirkebøker, SAKO/A-237/F/Fa/L0010: Ministerialbok nr. 10, 1837-1847, s. 358
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20051111050315
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dylankylesimon
Senior member

USA
200 Posts

Posted - 16/02/2023 :  18:26:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler

#29 Anne Helgesdatter gets married:
Norderhov kirkebøker, SAKO/A-237/F/Fa/L0010: Ministerialbok nr. 10, 1837-1847, s. 358
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20051111050315




Great find Jackie! Thank you! I am good to go on Anne, I found her descendants and will be able to find the rest myself! Since that is much easier than the hard work that you do!

Here is the page from the Viul book on Herman Pedersen and Anne Iwersdatter



Now looking for Herman/Hermann Pedersen/Persen's death entry from 1776 to 1801. Anne was a widow in 1801, so he must have died after giving birth to his son Christopher Hermansen, he was probably located on Wiol/Wiul/Viol/Viul.

#Left side 2nd entry it says Herman, but I don't think it says Persen or Pedersen right? Farm also doesn't look familiar.

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/image/299fe188-862a-42ed-8dc4-e3dc910b444a

Looked from 1776 to 1781, nothing..
Still got to look from 1781 to 1792..
Looked from 1792 to 1801, nothing..

Edited by - dylankylesimon on 17/02/2023 06:29:24
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dylankylesimon
Senior member

USA
200 Posts

Posted - 17/02/2023 :  06:29:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Where would I find Anne Iwersdatter Probate?

Name Anne Iwersdatter
Sex Female
Residence Place Hval
Address Hval
Probate Date 9 Feb 1803
Probate Place Norge
Event Type Probate
Event Place Note Haug, Norderhov
Document Number 1804-1808
Entry Number 58a
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
7771 Posts

Posted - 17/02/2023 :  11:45:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
At the Digitalarkivet's home page, select scanned archives from drop down, There should be 5 divisions and probate is one of the 5. Then put in 1947 community or parish name in search engine.
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
7771 Posts

Posted - 17/02/2023 :  15:48:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dylankylesimon

quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler

#29 Anne Helgesdatter gets married:
Norderhov kirkebøker, SAKO/A-237/F/Fa/L0010: Ministerialbok nr. 10, 1837-1847, s. 358
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20051111050315




Great find Jackie! Thank you! I am good to go on Anne, I found her descendants and will be able to find the rest myself! Since that is much easier than the hard work that you do!

Here is the page from the Viul book on Herman Pedersen and Anne Iwersdatter



Now looking for Herman/Hermann Pedersen/Persen's death entry from 1776 to 1801. Anne was a widow in 1801, so he must have died after giving birth to his son Christopher Hermansen, he was probably located on Wiol/Wiul/Viol/Viul.

#Left side 2nd entry it says Herman, but I don't think it says Persen or Pedersen right? Farm also doesn't look familiar.

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/image/299fe188-862a-42ed-8dc4-e3dc910b444a

Looked from 1776 to 1781, nothing..
Still got to look from 1781 to 1792..
Looked from 1792 to 1801, nothing..



I'm sure that was painful.

The name looks like Pedersen to me age 50 years on or at Honefos.
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dylankylesimon
Senior member

USA
200 Posts

Posted - 18/02/2023 :  02:10:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It was but you know, you have trained me, so I am getting better at it. I just wish their handwriting was slightly better. I also didn't find another Herman, so this must be him, I guess...

I also can't find the probate of her

Edited by - dylankylesimon on 18/02/2023 03:01:48
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
7771 Posts

Posted - 18/02/2023 :  06:08:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dylankylesimon

It was but you know, you have trained me, so I am getting better at it. I just wish their handwriting was slightly better. I also didn't find another Herman, so this must be him, I guess...

I also can't find the probate of her



Ringerike og Hallingdal sorenskriveri, SAKO/A-81/H/Ha/L0023: Skifteprotokoll, 1804-1808, p. 57b-58a
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/sk20090127360060

Starts at the very bottom of the right hand page 58a

Actually, I don't believe that this is your Anne. I think this is her death 15 Dec 1811, right side:
Norderhov kirkebøker, SAKO/A-237/F/Fa/L0006: Ministerialbok nr. 6, 1789-1811, s. 211
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070313660452

Edited by - jkmarler on 18/02/2023 07:40:26
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