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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
 Posted - 20/02/2023 : 22:41:36
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Agreed there are some peculiarities in the Norderhov records, even with the two sets system in play in the 1800s. My ancestor Ole Larson Sundby died between the putative conception date of the youngest child about Oct 1827 and 12 Oct 1831 the date he is described as "afgang" on his daughter's confirmation. There are only 3 Ole Larsen who die in that time recorded one a toddler, and two old men aged 67 and 80. None of them are good fits for mine. So I'm continuing to look elsewhere but....
For your case, when the marriage of a sibling or cousin was recently outed in Jevnaker, I thought that might be where.... |
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dylankylesimon
Senior member
USA
200 Posts |
Posted - 23/02/2023 : 00:43:45
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Agreed there are some peculiarities in the Norderhov records, even with the two sets system in play in the 1800s. My ancestor Ole Larson Sundby died between the putative conception date of the youngest child about Oct 1827 and 12 Oct 1831 the date he is described as "afgang" on his daughter's confirmation. There are only 3 Ole Larsen who die in that time recorded one a toddler, and two old men aged 67 and 80. None of them are good fits for mine. So I'm continuing to look elsewhere but....
For your case, when the marriage of a sibling or cousin was recently outed in Jevnaker, I thought that might be where....
Where exactly is Sundby located on a map and what is his age in 1827? |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
818 Posts |
Posted - 23/02/2023 : 13:16:18
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| Re location of Sundby. I notice that one Ole Larsen Sundby in this area was discussed on this forum some years ago, and it was noted that the Sundby farm was also called (or perhaps had a part called) Sønderengen. Here is one Sønderenga farm with a plausible location. |
Edited by - ToreL on 23/02/2023 15:36:49 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 23/02/2023 : 22:58:11
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The neighborhood of Sundby is called Aasa, somewhat south and to the east of Honefoss. I'm not certain the farm exists as an independent property today. Sonderengen may be a small part of the original Sundby.
I mentioned Ole Larsen only as an example of someone expected to be in Norderhov books whose death isn't. His marriage record in Norderhov also doesn't contain his biographical data such as age. He was the son of a man named Lars Larsen who was born about 1752 and who died in 1835. Lars Larsen's estate legacy was given to the surviving children of Ole Larsen.
I have two citations that may be Ole Larsen, one in the Norderhov books and the other in Aker in Oslo:
#45 Ole Larsen Holte age 27 leaving for Christiania:
Norderhov kirkebøker, SAKO/A-237/F/Fa/L0008: Parish register (official) no. 8, 1814-1833, p. 604-605
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070313670175
bapt in Oserdal, confirm in Wigten coming from Holmestrand?
#22 Ole Larsen from Ringerike, married but family lives in Ringerike, day laborer for Morch age 45
Oslo domkirke Kirkebøker, SAO/A-10752/F/Fa/L0023: Ministerialbok nr. 23, 1829-1834, s. 29-30
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061005060507
The given ages of these two citations don't match particularly well, either. |
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dylankylesimon
Senior member
USA
200 Posts |
Posted - 24/02/2023 : 23:48:50
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| Would you mind sending me a link to the entire discussion where you have previously researched? I mean, I have no clue how old Ole Larsen is, who his wife was or his children, but I'd like to take a look if I can find him? |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
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dylankylesimon
Senior member
USA
200 Posts |
Posted - 25/02/2023 : 04:09:45
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Edited by - dylankylesimon on 26/02/2023 03:07:59 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 25/02/2023 : 07:59:53
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Grasshopper, quickly as you can snatch the pebble from my hand....
Ole Larsen on Wager in 1801 cannot be my man. The subtlety in the marriage record in 1814 is that Ole is listed as ungkarl meaning bachelor. not enkemand as a widower nor fraskilt as divorced.
Yes Mari Jonsdatter (also spelled Joensdatter or Johnsdatter) is my ancestor on Sondbye in 1801. Her father Joen (or John or Jon) Svendsen is the son of Sidsel Nielsdatter on the next farm and her 2nd husband Svend Jonsen. Other ancestors of mine on these two pages are, of course, Jon's wife Else Halvorsdatter, Guri Engebretsdatter, daughter of Engebret Madsen and his wife Anne Jonasdatter (sometimes found as Jorgensdatter) at Nordbye. Guri's brother is on Ultvedt on the other page. Guri's family were from Hole. Jon's full brother Anders Svendsen is living with his mother on Nordbye with Erik Nielsen, the farm owner, who is Jon Svendsen's (and Anders') half brother and he is also Jon's brother-in-law married to Else Halvorsdatter's sister, Gudbjor.
Actually, I've felt no need to build my family tree online, but thanks for your offer anyway.
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dylankylesimon
Senior member
USA
200 Posts |
Posted - 26/02/2023 : 00:46:03
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Jackie, I assume that people are spreading false information, but people in 4 Family Tree list the following for Ole Larsen as husband to our Mari Jonsdatter:
1x Family Search Tree list this:
Ole Larsen
Birth: 1770 Rakkestad, Ostfold, Norway
Death: 22 Jan 1827, Pontiac, Oakland, Michigan, US
3x Ancestry Trees list this:
Ole Larsen
Birth: 1793 Suttestad, Fåberg, Oppland, Norway
Death: 22 Jan 1827, Pontiac, Oakland, Michigan, US
They appear to be the descendants of a Johannes Olsen and have all their research completely wrong  I hate when people spread wrong information...
Also, someone connected Lars Larsen's death date of 10 Sep 1835 in Nerdalen, Sigdal, Buskerud to several children born in Eiker, Buskerud, Norway 6 Nov 1790 to 1806.
The Mother is a Bodill Johannesdatter?
I assume this is wrong as well? https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/LHX1-YKC
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Edited by - dylankylesimon on 26/02/2023 03:15:36 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 26/02/2023 : 02:21:15
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I usually take a glance at all the posting done by you Dylan and Jackie. I do not join in since you two seem be able to fill a lot of pages on your own but this one caught my eye.especially the fact that Ole Larsen died in 1827 in Oakland County Michigan. Now a quick glace at the 1820 and 1830 Census records do not reveal any Norwegians in Oakland County until at least the 1850's., So where in the world do they get the death data from?
Ancestry does have this "Oakland County, Michigan Vital Records, 1800-1917 Results " But no Ole Larsen or Larson to be found and none of the dead from 1827 +/- 10 were born in Norway. |
Edited by - AntonH on 26/02/2023 02:27:48 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 26/02/2023 : 02:26:34
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Ancestry has about 35 trees for this family, so the mis-information is quite widespread.
Ole Larsen
1793–1827
BIRTH 1793 • Suttestad, Fåberg, Oppland, Norway
DEATH 22 JAN 1827 • Pontiac, Oakland, Michigan, United States
Mari Jonsdatter Sonderengen
1795–1865
BIRTH ABT 1795 • Buskerud, Norway
DEATH 1865 • Norway
Parents of Ole are.
Lars Hansen
1736–1823
BIRTH 1736 • Vangen, Nord Odal, Hedmark, Norway
DEATH 1823 • Kvarnstuen, Norway
Eli Sjonnesdatter
1751–1826
BIRTH 1751 • Struterud, Nord Odal, Norway
DEATH 20 MAY 1826 • Kvarnstuen, Norway
No parents listed for Mari and no sources that are useable. |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 26/02/2023 : 02:49:26
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Ole and Mari are listed in the trees as having a son
Johannes Olsen Bjornstad
1814–1899
BIRTH 14 APRIL 1814 • Lier, Buskerud, Norway
DEATH 22 OCT 1899 • Lake Park Township, Becker, Minnesota, USA
Johannes does appear to have existed and lived in Becker Minnesota. |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 26/02/2023 : 02:54:44
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Now digging around in Ancestry.com does turn up at least one tree that might be accurate.
Johannes Olsen Liverud (Bjornstad)
1814–1899
BIRTH 7 AUG 1814 • Frogner, i, Lier, Buskerud, Norway
DEATH 22 OCT 1899 • Lake Park, Becker, Minnesota, USA
His wife is
Karen Johanne Olsdatter
1820–1897
BIRTH 7 JUN 1820 • Rod, Royken, Buskerud, Norway
DEATH 26 JUNE 1897 • Lake Park, Becker County, Minnesota, USA
Parents are
Ole Pedersen Aaqvisla
1787–1854
BIRTH 15 AUG 1787 • Lier, Buskerud, Norway
DEATH 1854 • Sætre, Buskerud, Norway
Sigrid (Siri) Johannesdatter
1795–
BIRTH 1795 • Buskerud, Norway
DEATH Unknown
Lets see if this checks out. |
Edited by - AntonH on 26/02/2023 03:00:36 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 26/02/2023 : 03:08:49
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Now the one tree I found that gives at least some source data also explains some of the misleading data. Here ae the parents of Ole Pedersen Aaqvisla.
Peder (Per) Hansen Arqvisle
1745–
BIRTH 1745 • Lier Buskerud, Norway
DEATH Unknown
Eli Sjonnesdatter Struterud
1751–1826
BIRTH 1751
DEATH 1826
So Eli Sjonnesdatter Struterud was placed out of some place and put in a tree. The question is of course which of the trees does she belong in? |
Edited by - AntonH on 26/02/2023 03:22:27 |
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Peter E Simon (1870 Immigration to the US)
