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Carlse
Starting member
United Kingdom
18 Posts |
 Posted - 16/07/2023 : 21:46:00
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Hi, my great-grandfather was born in Horten around 1840. He emigrated to England and in 1869 married Isabel Best, on their marriage certificate his occupation was listed as seaman. Also on the marriage certificate Andrew’s father was listed as Thomas Hanson, occupation farmer. In 1869 the same year they married, Andrew became a naturalised British subject. I have a copy and annoyingly it doesn’t give his date of birth.
On UK census records from 1871 onwards his occupation was coal miner. On only one census Horten was listed as place of birth. Would love to know more about Andrew, and his father Thomas. Any help much appreciated Thanks Carole |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 17/07/2023 : 07:29:13
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Anders / Andreas Hansen from sailor innrullerings for Horten:
#50 born 1837
Horten innrulleringskontor, SAKO/A-785/F/Fc/L0001: Hovedrulle, 1860-1861, p. 45
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/ru20090420700045
#17 birth baptism Andreas (father is Hans Christian Thomassen)
Ramnes kirkebøker, SAKO/A-314/F/Fa/L0004: Parish register (official) no. I 4, 1813-1840, p. 354-355
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070424640177
#131 b 1833 & #133 b.1834
Horten innrulleringskontor, SAKO/A-785/F/Fc/L0001: Hovedrulle, 1860-1861, p. 86
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/ru20090420700086
#189 b 1832 and # 190 b 1836
Horten innrulleringskontor, SAKO/A-785/F/Fc/L0001: Hovedrulle, 1860-1861, p. 115
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/ru20090420700115
#211 b 1822
Horten innrulleringskontor, SAKO/A-785/F/Fc/L0001: Hovedrulle, 1860-1861, p. 126
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/ru20090420700126
#251 b. [18]25 also dead in 1862
Horten innrulleringskontor, SAKO/A-785/F/Fc/L0001: Hovedrulle, 1860-1861, p. 146
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/ru20090420700146
#294 b 1823
Horten innrulleringskontor, SAKO/A-785/F/Fc/L0001: Hovedrulle, 1860-1861, p. 161
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/ru20090420700161
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#517 b 1841
Horten innrulleringskontor, SAKO/A-785/F/Fc/L0002: Hovedrulle, 1861-1868, p. 114
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/ru20090420700299
#42 birth baptism Andreas Hansen (father is sailor Hans Olsen)
Borre kirkebøker, SAKO/A-338/F/Fa/L0004: Parish register (official) no. I 4, 1815-1845, p. 148-149
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070403660250
#17 confirmation
Borre kirkebøker, SAKO/A-338/F/Fa/L0006: Ministerialbok nr. I 6, 1852-1862, s. 189
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20051027010198
married at Borre in 1865:https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/327/pv00000001600589
living in Horten in 1865: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01038103002275
living in Horten in 1870: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01053335004553
Occupation most often as tommermand and styrmand
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#553 b. 1844
Horten innrulleringskontor, SAKO/A-785/F/Fc/L0002: Hovedrulle, 1861-1868, p. 132
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/ru20090420700317
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#564 b. 1839
Horten innrulleringskontor, SAKO/A-785/F/Fc/L0002: Hovedrulle, 1861-1868, p. 137
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/ru20090420700322
#29 birth baptism Andreas (father is Hans Thomassen)
Stavern kirkebøker, SAKO/A-318/F/Fa/L0007: Parish register (official) no. 7, 1840-1877, p. 2
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061107310408
This possible Andreas is very unlikely to have been in England. He marries twice in Norway and is found in very many of the Norwegian censuses including 1910.
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Edited by - jkmarler on 21/07/2023 11:50:37 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 17/07/2023 : 07:44:03
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Anders Thomassen sailor innrullerings from Horten:
#9 b. 1832
Horten innrulleringskontor, SAKO/A-785/F/Fc/L0001: Hovedrulle, 1860-1861, p. 25
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/ru20090420700025
#68 b. 1796 also listed as dead 186___
Horten innrulleringskontor, SAKO/A-785/F/Fc/L0001: Hovedrulle, 1860-1861, p. 54
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/ru20090420700054
Anders Tonnesen sailor innrullerings from Horten
#87 (second entry) b. 1838
Horten innrulleringskontor, SAKO/A-785/F/Fc/L0001: Hovedrulle, 1860-1861, p. 64
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/ru20090420700064
#22 birth baptism boys Andreas Christian (father is Tonnes Arnesen)
Borre kirkebøker, SAKO/A-338/F/Fa/L0004: Parish register (official) no. I 4, 1815-1845, p. 128-129
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070403660240
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Edited by - jkmarler on 17/07/2023 09:22:46 |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
819 Posts |
Posted - 17/07/2023 : 10:49:38
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| If the entries above include all sailors in the relevant timespan registered in Horten with name Anders/Andreas and patronymic Hansen or Thomasen/Tønnesen, then chances ate good that the actual Andrew is among them. I note that the candidate listed first, Anders Hansen Fjeldboen, jumped ship (commented with "römt") on his second and last voyage, headed for Rouen in 1861, but I can't read the name of the port where he disembarked. Any suggestion? |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 17/07/2023 : 15:55:41
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quote:
Originally posted by ToreL
If the entries above include all sailors in the relevant timespan registered in Horten with name Anders/Andreas and patronymic Hansen or Thomasen/Tønnesen, then chances ate good that the actual Andrew is among them. I note that the candidate listed first, Anders Hansen Fjeldboen, jumped ship (commented with "römt") on his second and last voyage, headed for Rouen in 1861, but I can't read the name of the port where he disembarked. Any suggestion?
As good as I could find using available ettername indexes...
At first I thought Portofino but enlarging makes the first letter look more like an "H", so it may even be Horten___. He left from Tonsberg for Rouen.
This candidate also has a sister named Johanne Andrea whose birth baptism is #19 on the girls part of the page
Ramnes kirkebøker, SAKO/A-314/F/Fa/L0004: Ministerialbok nr. I 4, 1813-1840, s. 186-187
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070424640097
The marriage of this Anders Hansen's parents in 1836. #10 His father had been married before and was born 1799 so Johanne might be is a half sister:
Våle kirkebøker, SAKO/A-334/F/Fa/L0008: Ministerialbok nr. I 8, 1824-1844, s. 211
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070403630466
#10 death of father Hans Christian Thomasen in 1842
Ramnes kirkebøker, SAKO/A-314/F/Fa/L0005: Ministerialbok nr. I 5, 1841-1861, s. 320-321
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061117030509
#12 marriage between Jahn Pedersen and widow Gunild Marie Fjelleboden
Ramnes kirkebøker, SAKO/A-314/F/Fa/L0005: Ministerialbok nr. I 5, 1841-1861, s. 444-445
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061117040023
Probably Gunild in 1865 census with her 2nd husband children:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01038103006138
Gunhild in 1875 census Horten:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01052135004824
Gunild in 1891 census Horten:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01052801005716
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Edited by - jkmarler on 19/07/2023 22:04:12 |
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Carlse
Starting member
United Kingdom
18 Posts |
Posted - 17/07/2023 : 22:14:36
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| Thank you very much for your replies. The 1881 UK census listing the children of Andrew Hanson (my great grandfather) is correct. His son Christopher was my grandfather. When looking through the 1869 naturalisation record of Andrew, it said he’d been living in the UK for 8 years and he was a seaman. All the census records seem to point to him being born around 1840. He died in 1907 aged 67. As I mentioned, on his marriage certificate it lists his father as Thomas, occupation farmer. I suspected Andrew and Thomas’ names possibly were anglicised and were Anders and Tomas. I’ll have to spend time looking through the links. Thank you again for your kind replies, Carole |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 17/07/2023 : 23:01:50
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| Tore, how about the port name of Hartlepool for the port Anders went AWOL? It's in Durham where he lived in 1881 etc. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 17/07/2023 23:34:46 |
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Carlse
Starting member
United Kingdom
18 Posts |
Posted - 17/07/2023 : 23:06:29
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| Forgot to mention I did a DNA test, I am 20% Norwegian! I seem to have a connection to Upper Telemark & Vestfold and Rollag, Tinn & Notodden. My dad was also called Andrew (born UK) and when I was born Mum wanted to call me Ingeborg, dad said no! Unfortunately I can’t speak Norwegian but it was interesting to read one Andrew Hanson jumped ship in 1861, as my great grandfather arrived in UK that same year. Regards Carole |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 17/07/2023 : 23:20:00
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Too bad Dad said no. Ingeborg often gets Anglicized to Isabella or Belle which would get you to memorialize Andrew's wife.
Hans Christian Thomassen in the 1801 census on Fjeleboen which is the same farm just different spelling associated with Anders Hansen birth and where his mother lived when she married again:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01058291001294
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Edited by - jkmarler on 18/07/2023 17:06:01 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 18/07/2023 : 09:22:42
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There is a Ramnes Bygdebok published in 1970 in which Fjelebuen is mentioned. The main story is in Bind 2, page 695 and, rarest of rare, it is open to anyone at the National Library site:
https://www.nb.no/items/b7d78a2d65926497fb8e62fe09324e7b?page=51&searchText=fjelebuen
Anders is mentioned, an only son of the previous owner, his father Hans Christian Thomasen, you'd think a "shoo-in" for getting the farm himself at age but it was sold in 1843 to another person entirely. So far I haven't seen anything else about Anders, would be interesting to find, if so. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 21/07/2023 11:09:10 |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
819 Posts |
Posted - 18/07/2023 : 09:53:27
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Tore, how about the port name of Hartlepool for the port Anders went AWOL? It's in Durham where he lived in 1881 etc.
Yes!! Hartlepool could definitely be what it says. And Norwegian ships had plenty of traffic on Hartlepool loading coal. |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
819 Posts |
Posted - 18/07/2023 : 10:04:19
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About the father's name: As they were used in the eighteen hundreds, the Norwegian sen-names can be understood in two ways: as patronymics; Anders Hansen is always the son of Hans <simething>, or as "set" surnames, inherited from father to children "as is". For a boy born on a farm around 1840, the first interpretation is nost likely, in the absence of other info.
Now there is the wedding certificate giving his father's name as Thomas Hansen, but I believe we should consider the possibility that it was really Hans Thomasen but the English clerk got confused by the unmatching surnames an "corrected" it. |
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Carlse
Starting member
United Kingdom
18 Posts |
Posted - 18/07/2023 : 12:48:04
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This is all so exciting! We all have 16 2x great grandparents, and I only know 15. I’m missing my two times great grandmother who was married to Thomas. I had wondered whether her name was Ingeborg as where would my English mother have got the idea for that name. Interestingly my dad had a sister named Isabel. Sadly dad (who was a lot older than mum) died in 1960 when I was very young, so no info there.
The explanation as to names has been interesting, so Andrew was most likely Anders, and his father Hans Thomason, I have searched Ancestry and never sure how to progress. Regards to all, Carole |
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Andrew Hanson
