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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7766 Posts |
 Posted - 18/07/2023 : 16:47:23
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quote:
Originally posted by ToreL
About the father's name: As they were used in the eighteen hundreds, the Norwegian sen-names can be understood in two ways: as patronymics; Anders Hansen is always the son of Hans <simething>, or as "set" surnames, inherited from father to children "as is". For a boy born on a farm around 1840, the first interpretation is nost likely, in the absence of other info.
Now there is the wedding certificate giving his father's name as Thomas Hansen, but I believe we should consider the possibility that it was really Hans Thomasen but the English clerk got confused by the unmatching surnames an "corrected" it.
Well Anders would have been 5 only when his father died. As an exercise try to recall your memories from age 5, sometimes possible and sometimes not.
Regards the name you chose in America it often happens parents inherit from their children! |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7766 Posts |
Posted - 18/07/2023 : 17:02:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Carlse
This is all so exciting! We all have 16 2x great grandparents, and I only know 15. I’m missing my two times great grandmother who was married to Thomas. I had wondered whether her name was Ingeborg as where would my English mother have got the idea for that name. Interestingly my dad had a sister named Isabel. Sadly dad (who was a lot older than mum) died in 1960 when I was very young, so no info there.
The explanation as to names has been interesting, so Andrew was most likely Anders, and his father Hans Thomason, I have searched Ancestry and never sure how to progress. Regards to all, Carole
The woman who was married to Thomas Eriksen was Sibille Nilsdatter according to the bygdebok and they are the parents of Hans Christian Thomasen, the father of Anders Hansen.
Anders' mother, Gunild Marie Andersdatter, was still living in 1865 in Horten. It's possible, if there is an estate record for her at her death, that it might mention her son and his location. That would be a more solid clue if he is mentioned specifically as being in England, but if not, another piece of circumstantial information. |
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Carlse
Starting member
United Kingdom
18 Posts |
Posted - 18/07/2023 : 21:36:51
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| Hello JKMarler and ToreL many thanks for your help. From what I can understand Hans Christian Thomasen born 1799 died aged only 42 in 1842, and is possibly the Thomas Hanson (farmer) my 2 x great grandfather, who was married to second wife Gunild Marie. She remarried Hans Pedersen after his death. Am I reading correctly that Gunild Marie’s maiden name was Andersdatter? My great grandfather would have only been about 2 in 1840 when his dad died. I can’t speak Norwegian so unfortunately couldn’t read some of the links. Wonder why Andrew/Anders left Norway in 1861 approximately to live and work in County Durham as a coal miner, an extremely hard occupation. Thanks again, Carole |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7766 Posts |
Posted - 18/07/2023 : 22:33:15
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The Anders Hansen we're exploring from Ramnes Norway, later possibly Horten, since he registered in Horten when he became a sailor and he was born in 1837 so a bit older than the records in England indicate.
This Anders Hansen's mother's maiden name is Andersdatter indicating her father's name of Anders. On hers and Hans Christian's marriage record her father is identified as Anders Olsen. So this Anders Hansen was named for his maternal grandfather.
This Anders Hansen became a seaman in 1860 (the date is in his Horten sailing record). He went on two voyages, one of which he went AWOL in 1861 at a port beginning with the letter H which we think is actually Hartlepool. Hartlepool is in Durham where your Andrew Hansen settled.
Granted coal mining is difficult but he was a stepson to his mother's new husband and maybe didn't feel welcome enough to continue to stay in the new family.
By age 15 as children reach confirmation age in some families there is a big push to get them out of the house and supporting themselves.
This Anders Hansen no longer had access to the "family" farm Fjelebuen that had belonged to his father as it was sold in 1845, he would have moved on with his mother who married another and had additional children with him until he was considered of age. He had no farm and Horten is on the ocean so would be logical to try it out as an occupation. Sea life is also harsh, perhaps 2 voyages and he'd had enough? |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
822 Posts |
Posted - 18/07/2023 : 23:52:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Carlse
Forgot to mention I did a DNA test, I am 20% Norwegian! I seem to have a connection to Upper Telemark & Vestfold and Rollag, Tinn & Notodden. My dad was also called Andrew (born UK) and when I was born Mum wanted to call me Ingeborg, dad said no! Unfortunately I can’t speak Norwegian but it was interesting to read one Andrew Hanson jumped ship in 1861, as my great grandfather arrived in UK that same year. Regards Carole
There is a Geni profile for Gunild Andersdatter, administered by her great great grandson. You could contact him and ask if he has taken a DNA test himself at the same provider as you did.
Edit: Assuming this is indeed the same Gunild Marie Andersdatter. Do we have any confirmation of this beyond name plus year and parish of birth? |
Edited by - ToreL on 19/07/2023 14:12:43 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7766 Posts |
Posted - 19/07/2023 : 21:11:14
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quote:
Originally posted by ToreL
quote:
Originally posted by Carlse
Forgot to mention I did a DNA test, I am 20% Norwegian! I seem to have a connection to Upper Telemark & Vestfold and Rollag, Tinn & Notodden. My dad was also called Andrew (born UK) and when I was born Mum wanted to call me Ingeborg, dad said no! Unfortunately I can’t speak Norwegian but it was interesting to read one Andrew Hanson jumped ship in 1861, as my great grandfather arrived in UK that same year. Regards Carole
There is a Geni profile for Gunild Andersdatter, administered by her great great grandson. You could contact him and ask if he has taken a DNA test himself at the same provider as you did.
Edit: Assuming this is indeed the same Gunild Marie Andersdatter. Do we have any confirmation of this beyond name plus year and parish of birth?
Circumstances point to her being the correct one. At her marriage to Hans Christians Thomasen, her father is named Arne Olsen, she born 1817 Vaale. When Gunhild married in 1848 to Hjan / Jan Pederson she is listed as widow and a resident on Fjelleboen--the family farm of Hans Christian Thomassen.
A dodsfallsprotokol for her might have information tying Anders to her... |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
822 Posts |
Posted - 19/07/2023 : 23:06:46
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
quote:
Originally posted by ToreL
quote:
Originally posted by Carlse
Forgot to mention I did a DNA test, I am 20% Norwegian! I seem to have a connection to Upper Telemark & Vestfold and Rollag, Tinn & Notodden. My dad was also called Andrew (born UK) and when I was born Mum wanted to call me Ingeborg, dad said no! Unfortunately I can’t speak Norwegian but it was interesting to read one Andrew Hanson jumped ship in 1861, as my great grandfather arrived in UK that same year. Regards Carole
There is a Geni profile for Gunild Andersdatter, administered by her great great grandson. You could contact him and ask if he has taken a DNA test himself at the same provider as you did.
Edit: Assuming this is indeed the same Gunild Marie Andersdatter. Do we have any confirmation of this beyond name plus year and parish of birth?
Circumstances point to her being the correct one. At her marriage to Hans Christians Thomasen, her father is named Arne Olsen, she born 1817 Vaale. When Gunhild married in 1848 to Hjan / Jan Pederson she is listed as widow and a resident on Fjelleboen--the family farm of Hans Christian Thomassen.
A dodsfallsprotokol for her might have information tying Anders to her...
Sounds quite convincing. I haven't discovered her death date, but it must have been after the 1891 census; this search and this return her entries in five censuses from 1865 to 1891, apparently all at the same location. |
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Carlse
Starting member
United Kingdom
18 Posts |
Posted - 19/07/2023 : 23:17:59
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Have you been able to find Anders Hanson on the 1841 census showing Hans Christian Thomasen and Gunild Marie as his parents? Sounds like 1837 was mentioned here as his DOB, whereas in UK census records it appears to be 1840. I half expected the mother of Anders to be called Ingaborg, as my mother considered that name for me, but it seems like she was called Gunild.. Just a thought but do you know the name of Hans Christian Thomason’s first wife? Incase she was Anders’ mother, and not Gunild. Now I understand Norwegian patronymic naming it does make it clear why on Ancestry I couldn’t find Thomas!
In England I’ve looked around cemeteries and found the graves of my 4 x great grandparents, searching in Norway is harder, so thanks very much for generously giving your time. Regards Carole |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7766 Posts |
Posted - 20/07/2023 : 01:11:27
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Norway's censuses are taken more irregularly than Britain's. There is not an 1841 census.
I have looked for a confirmation record for Anders Hansen b 1837 in Ramness but have not yet found, now done see below). Anders's eldest half sibling from his mother's second marriage was born in Ramnes in 1850. The next surviving half sibling from that family, according to the 1865 census was born in Horten in 1853 but online records at the digitalarkivet do not have birth/ baptism from Horten until 1855.
#17 Anders Hansen confirmation:
Ramnes kirkebøker, SAKO/A-314/F/Fa/L0005: Parish register (official) no. I 5, 1841-1861, p. 562-563
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061117040086
His residence in the confirmation record is Horten.
There is one Anders Hansen b 1837 (but birth date appears differently than expected to be this Anders) leaving the Ramnes parish for Horten in 1852. Might he him, but don't know for certain.
Ramnes kirkebøker, SAKO/A-314/F/Fa/L0005: Parish register (official) no. I 5, 1841-1861, p. 698-699
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061117040139
Departure 6 Sept 1852 Udflyttede column |
Edited by - jkmarler on 20/07/2023 01:39:07 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7766 Posts |
Posted - 20/07/2023 : 01:38:24
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Here is Gunhild Marie's death record in Horten #19 died 20 April 1897 lower half of page:
Horten kirkebøker, SAKO/A-348/F/Fa/L0005: Parish register (official) no. 5, 1896-1904, p. 316
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060516070007
Here is her obit but Anders is not mentioned:
https://www.nb.no/items/3b9a80a3646ad3eee98a5c58ec69b238?page=1&searchText=%22jansen%22
The named survivors are Stina and her husband M Olsen; G Jansen and Anna Markusen Jansen; Karoline Johannessen
Dodsfallsprotokol #20 Gunild Marie Andersen in April:
Borre lensmannskontor, SAKO/A-533/H/Ha/L0003: Dødsfallsprotokoll, 1894-1902, p. 21
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/sk10101301030024
Unfortunately, only the two named in her obit are mentioned and not by name.
Jan Pedersen the step dad's dodsfallsprotokol #3 in 1884 survived by widow and 3 grown children, one of which is at sea.
Mellom Jarlsberg sorenskriveri, SAKO/A-132/H/Ha/Haa/Haab/L0001: Dødsfallsprotokoll, landdistriktet, 1863-1905, p. 146
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/sk60054337000153
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Edited by - jkmarler on 20/07/2023 06:02:51 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7766 Posts |
Posted - 20/07/2023 : 04:16:43
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| Carole, so have you found Andrew Hansen in the 1901 or later censuses in England? Or do you know when he died? |
Edited by - jkmarler on 20/07/2023 04:23:54 |
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Carlse
Starting member
United Kingdom
18 Posts |
Posted - 20/07/2023 : 15:38:18
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Hello, Andrew Hanson died March 1907 aged 66. Death registration was in Houghton-Le-Spring County Durham vol 10a page 323. It says estimated year of birth about 1841. I assumed he was born 1840 as in the 1881 census his age was 41, however having checked both the 1891 and 1901 census the estimated year of birth was 1837.
I couldn’t find Andrew on the 1871 census on Ancestry, but have found Andrew on Find my past, occupation Mariner, living with wife Isabella and son Tom. Once again birth year estimated as 1841, as he was 30. They were living in West Hartlepool Durham. |
Edited by - Carlse on 21/07/2023 16:25:23 |
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Carlse
Starting member
United Kingdom
18 Posts |
Posted - 21/07/2023 : 12:30:36
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| Hi all, just had a slight lightbulb moment! I’ve just remembered my Dad’s sister telling us their Norwegian grandfather was a ship’s captain (slight promotion from seaman) and that he should have inherited family money, but didn’t. Just occurred to me that could have been the family farm, sold after his father’s death. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7766 Posts |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7766 Posts |
Posted - 22/07/2023 : 20:12:39
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There is an "Anders Hansen" who is fadder (witness or godfather) to Simen, son of Jan Pedersen and Gunild Marie Andersdatter #255
Borre kirkebøker, SAKO/A-338/F/Fa/L0006: Ministerialbok nr. I 6, 1852-1862, s. 36
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20051027010039
And also an Anders Hansen fadder (witness or godparent) to Gustav another son of Jan Pedersen and Gunild Marie Andersdatter # 164
Borre kirkebøker, SAKO/A-338/F/Fa/L0006: Ministerialbok nr. I 6, 1852-1862, s. 145
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20051027010153
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Edited by - jkmarler on 23/07/2023 01:48:56 |
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Andrew Hanson
