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dwssnell
Medium member
USA
119 Posts |
 Posted - 03/03/2016 : 20:48:04
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| My G. G. grandfather Christian Larsen, born May 17, 1835, and baptized in Faaberg parish, illegitimate son of Lars Bruget and Marthe Olsdatter Geitrud (Gjedrud). My problem is Lars Bruget. He is mentioned as the father in the Brottum bygdebok as Lars Bruget of Ringsaker, but the only other clue to is identity is on Christian Larsen's confirmation record which says father is Lars Christensen, which means his father would be Christian, and mother is Martha Olsdatter in Lillehammer Faaberg parish. Birth place Gjedrud. I have been searching the Digitalarkivet for Lars, and yesterday came across. Yesterday I came across a Lars Christiansen, born 1810, in the church book from Hof parish,Hedmark, 1790-1815, whose parents were Christian Larsen and Maria Hansdatter of Grenogen. Then going back to the 1801 census, I found Christian Larsen, age 11, in Hof Parish, whose parents were Lars Olsen, 45, and Kari Olsdatter, 48. How can I know for sure that these are my people? The names and ages are reasonable. The name Maria for Lars Chrstiansen's mother is reasonable, since my Christian, 1835, named his first daughter Maria so that would be after his grandmother. If I could verify these people I could really fill in some gaps on my family tree! |
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dwssnell
Medium member
USA
119 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2016 : 20:53:36
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| PS A little more info: My g. g. grandfather Christian Larson, born 1835, married Anne Olsdatter Saeterbakken, and they immigrated in 1871 with two sons, Mathias (my g. grandfather) and Ole. Daughter Maria died in Norway at age 6. In America, Mathias changed his name to martin Larson, and Ole Larson died at age 18 in Vernon County, Wisconsin. Chrisitan Larson died there in 1932 at age 97 as the oldest man in Westby, Wisconsin. Christian and Anne had another daughter, Mina, in Wisconsin. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2016 : 21:51:30
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Being born on the 17 May in Norway is like being born on the 4th of July here
Here is Christian Larson's baptism #41 left page:
Source information: Oppland county, Fåberg, Parish register (official) nr. 4 (1833-1837), Birth and baptism records 1835, page 66-67.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=9280&idx_id=9280&uid=ny&idx_side=-23
There are some little notes by this entry in a different hand it would be interesting to get those interpreted and translated. Looks like there is a date of 5 June 1838 on the left note.
Bruget is a farm in Ringsaker.
Here is the confirmation #23:
Source information: Oppland county, Fåberg, Parish register (official) nr. 5 (1836-1854), Confirmation records 1850, page 399-400.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8934&idx_id=8934&uid=ny&idx_side=-205
There are several Lars' moving into Faaberg from Ringsaker but none named CHristianson nor Bruget. There is one Lars Christianso moving from Ringsaker but to Gusdahl /Gausdal? #19:
Source information: Hedmark county, Ringsaker, Parish register (official) nr. 7B (1826-1837), Migration records 1833, page 451.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=6012&idx_id=6012&uid=ny&idx_side=-95
There is a Lars Christianson mentioned in the first entry for a farm called Vangen which is an underfarm of Bruget nordre in Ringsaker. Apparently its a purchase in 1836. A bit further down the page Lars Christianson's widow sells to Christian Larsen in 1874:
Kildeinformasjon: Protokollnummer: 4.2, Sted: Nord-Hedmark sorenskriveri, Ringsaker tinglag, Oppbevaringssted: SAH
Merknader: Brøttum sokn, gnr. 439-492.
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-tl20071030340537.jpg
This might be a family worth searching.
The family in 1865 census on Brugvangen:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01038031011829
Lars' marriage #59:
Source information: Hedmark county, Ringsaker, Parish register (official) nr. 7A (1826-1837), Marriage records 1835, page 333.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=6011&idx_id=6011&uid=ny&idx_side=-318
Lars' death #59:
Source information: Hedmark county, Ringsaker, Parish register (official) nr. 11 (1870-1878), Death and burial records men 1874, page 423.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8845&idx_id=8845&uid=ny&idx_side=-335 |
Edited by - jkmarler on 04/03/2016 16:31:51 |
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dwssnell
Medium member
USA
119 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2016 : 06:42:11
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| Thank you so much. On the1865 census that is not the right Lars Kristiansen, because that is not my Kristian Larsen, age 30, his son. Unless Lars had two sons named Christian that were several months apart. In the 1865 census my g. g. grandfather Christian Larson, 31, already was married to Anne Olsdatter Saeterbakken, they had two children, Mathias Christiansen (my g. grandfather) and Maria Christiansdatter, and were living on Nordhagen, Brottum, Ringsaker, also with spinster lady Guri Olsdatter who was his mother Marthe Olsdatter's older spinster sister. Marthe was from Geitrud (Gjredrud.) The marriage of Lars I am not sure about, but that says his father is Christian Hansen. I saw the notes on Christian Larsen's birth, and certainly wish I could read them! Maria died in Norway at age 6, and Christian, Anne, Mathias and another son Ole, immigrated in 1871 and settled in Wisconsin. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2016 : 09:21:39
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| Well, you were asking for proof on a particular possible parent. I followed the clues you were given in the birth & confirmation record of your Christian Larson (father's name Lars Bruget, Lars Christianson from Ringsaker) and was able to find a reasonable alternative to your speculative parent. The fact that Lars Christianson had a legitimate son named Christian does not eliminate him from consideration. He was a single man at the time of your Christian's conception (and very nearly birth date), he was from Bruget in Ringsaker. Otherwise what does the candidate you advanced have to answer a Ringsaker connection and the farm name Bruget? |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2016 : 14:03:02
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I didn't work on your previous topic on the father of Christian Larson but you were pointed in the same direction then:
http://www.norwayheritage.com/snitz/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5563
Did you look in the bygebok for the area and what did you find?
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Edited by - jkmarler on 04/03/2016 14:08:06 |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2016 : 14:18:57
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You g. grandfather was born and baptized in Faaberg (not Ringsaker as said in the 1865 census), see #212.
The marriage record in Faaberg for your g. grandparents does not reveal names of the respective fathers, see #29.
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Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 04/03/2016 14:25:28 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2016 : 15:53:03
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quote:
Originally posted by eibache
You g. grandfather was born and baptized in Faaberg (not Ringsaker as said in the 1865 census), see #212.
The 1865 census posted in this topic is about Lars Christianson the possible father of Christian Larsen 1835-1932. The Christian Larsen b Ringsaker age 30 is the legitimate son of Lars Christianson.
Not sure if this Christian Larson on Nordhagen is yours or not but might be of interest:
Kildeinformasjon: Protokollnummer: 4.3, Sted: Nord-Hedmark sorenskriveri, Ringsaker tinglag, Oppbevaringssted: SAH
Merknader: Brøttum sokn, gnr. 493-527.
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-tl20071030340787.jpg |
Edited by - jkmarler on 04/03/2016 16:11:42 |
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dwssnell
Medium member
USA
119 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2016 : 18:23:58
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| Thank you. The one in the first entry is very possibly my Christian. I am not sure what all of the words mean but it looks like a land transaction where Christian Larsen bought part of Nordhagen.. That is very possible. Christian Larsen married Anne Olsdatter Saeterbakken in 1858 and they lived on Nordhagen until they emigrated from Norway to America in 1871. |
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dwssnell
Medium member
USA
119 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2016 : 20:55:51
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Well, you were asking for proof on a particular possible parent. I followed the clues you were given in the birth & confirmation record of your Christian Larson (father's name Lars Bruget, Lars Christianson from Ringsaker) and was able to find a reasonable alternative to your speculative parent. The fact that Lars Christianson had a legitimate son named Christian does not eliminate him from consideration. He was a single man at the time of your Christian's conception (and very nearly birth date), he was from Bruget in Ringsaker. Otherwise what does the candidate you advanced have to answer a Ringsaker connection and the farm name Bruget?
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dwssnell
Medium member
USA
119 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2016 : 21:01:55
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| JK marler, nothing except the names really and time frame really, and the fact that they are in Hedmark, albeit a different parish. As far as Lars Christensen vs Lars Bruget, I, I have the bygdeboks for Brottum, Ringsaker and I don't find any info on him except that he is listed as the father of Christian Larsen on the Gjedrud listing by the name of Lars Bruget. I know that many times they adopted the name of the farm they moved to. The Hof parish listing I found on the digitalarkivet site when searching possibilities for Lars Christensen.Basically I am grasping at straws! |
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dwssnell
Medium member
USA
119 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2016 : 21:04:11
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| PS You are a lot more of an expert than I am, so you are very possibly correct on that one. I just don't know for sure. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2016 : 22:50:58
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Seldom have I seen an illegitimate child having such investigable information about their father as your Christian has. You have a first name, a patronymic name, name of a parish of origin and the name of a farm. And yet you choose to treat these clues as if they have no value and are willing to vette another entirely different candidate you found who only has the most circumstantial of evidence and even slimmer chance of getting verified. I don't get it.
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dwssnell
Medium member
USA
119 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2016 : 23:00:39
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| I never said it had no value. I have known all that for years. But after all these years, I still don't know if I have the right Lars. I never said that the other candidate was the right one. I was just asking about the possibility. Don't be upset with me. I haven't adopted the other Lars yet. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2016 : 23:25:27
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In your first topic I think Kåre gave you 3 Lars Christiansons born Ringsaker of such birthdates as they could be the father of someone born in 1835. Have you seriously studied each of them? Although the name Lars Christianson isn't totally unique it is much more rare than Ole Olson (Norwegian equivalent of John Smith)
The candidate on Brugvangen may have living descendants. You may need to find them and get some DNA testing.
Who else is interested enough in your Christian Larson to take on serious research if you don't do it?
Sometimes you find "invisible" threads among the faddernes the godparents. Collect all those names from Christian's children's baptisms, likewise from Lars Christianson's legitimate family and from his siblings kids.
Why did your Christian move from Faaberg to Ringsaker. Maybe his father decided to assist him in some way? |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9224 Posts |
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Verifying ancestors!
